Series 80 Colt & Firing Pin safety

[capttom]

I have an opportunity to latch on to a lightly used Series 80 Colt Commander 1991A1 for $575 OTD, one with the old roll mark billboard. I haven't been able to try the trigger yet, but know some shooters object to the harder/creepier pull caused by the firing pin safety. I don't know if it'll bother me or not, but if it's a detriment to a good trigger, I'd like to remove it. How difficult is it to pull the plunger, et al? I'm aware of legal liabilities and would hang on to the parts for re-installation were I ever to sell the gun or leave it to one of the heirs.
Or is the f/p safety much ado about nothing?
And yes, I could by another brand for that amount (or less if I went Filipino) and not worry about the safety, but I've always liked playing the ponies.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Or is the f/p safety much ado about nothing?

Yes...A real long post on this very subject ended not long ago....

 

[JTQ]

If you've been shooting match 1911's for a long time you may notice the presence of the firing pin safety. If you are new to 1911's you will probably say, "boy that is one nice trigger."

 

[Old Fuff]

The real problem with the Colt safety is that the trigger moving backwards acts through two levers to lift the safety block out of contact with the firing pin. Many shooters like to prevent trigger overtravel by having a positive stop on the trigger's fingerpiece. If this positive stop prevents the trigger from moving far enough the safety block won't clear the firing pin, in which case you won't hear a BANG!!

John Browning understood something that too many of today's lawyers don't. Adding gadgets to a simple, straight forward system can make it more safe (in theory), but less reliable - and in a service pistol reliability should come first.

It it's not too uncommon for someone to hand a gunsmith a series 80 Colt with the hammer cocked, and no matter how hard you pull the trigger the hammer won't fall. After a quick and minor adjustment the pistol works again, while the owners scratches his head wondering what happened.

All of my 1911 platform pistols are set up the way Browning designed it. I have absolutely no interest in any firearm or modification that was created by the company's lawyers.

 

[Drail]

Absolutely right.

 

[Oro]

but know some shooters object to the harder/creepier pull caused by the firing pin safety.

The creep isn't caused by the f.p. safety alone. In my experience, it's generally the less precise hammer/sear fit when Colt q.c. was slack from the late '80s to the late '90s. For example, the triggers on the earliest 80 series (1983-1985) and the latest ones (2005 to now) are excellent on average. The new ones are flat fantastic, actually, and are the most consistent and crisp Colt has ever made.

Sub $600 OTD for a 1991 is a "buy," and especially if it's stock and not terribly mucked-up. If you find it does have some trigger creep, that can be tuned out without much trouble.

I bought the "kool-aid" for a long time about ignoring the 80 guns. But the fact is it's a reliable safety system and can be easily tuned to feel the same as a pre-80 type.

 

[rskent]

capttom
Unless you’re setting up the gun for competition “It’s much ado about nothing”. If you’re going to do a trigger job on it, there are a few more parts to consider, and a few more things to do. But it’s not any harder to get a good smooth trigger pull. I like mine at about 3 ½ pounds, with just a bit of over travel. So the series 80 guns are fine for me.

As Old Fuff said, if you set up your trigger with no over travel, you can have some problems with the firing pin block not clearing the pin. So if you like your triggers set up with little or no over travel, series 80 guns are probably not for you.

As for the price, Bud’s had some new ones for $728 a while ago. Just checked, they’re gone. $575 is more than I would want to pay, but if I didn’t already have a couple I might just pony up.
Steve

 

[gwnorth]

I have two series 80 Colts - 2009 stainless Combat Commander and a 1990's stainless Gov't enhanced model. Both great guns with no problems, so I also say "much ado about nothing".

 

[CajunBass]

I've got a 1991A1 Commander with the billboard roll mark. I got it used, and I'm pretty sure the trigger isn't stock, but in my opinion, it's the best trigger I've ever used on any handgun. Whoever did it, did a good job. I can't feel anything but a clean break.

 

[capttom]

Thanks for all the info. The old Series 70s and Combat Commanders, circa 1977, were the first "fighting" guns I got proficient with, as opposed to .22s. I got away from the big .45 when I moved and reloading became inadvisable. Although I'm happy with my 9mms, I'm getting that old 1911 itch. It's a hard itch to scratch. Maybe this Colt will have to follow me home.

 

[SSN Vet]

If it really bothers you, just take out the two lever arms, the plunger and the spring and put in a spacer in place of the trigger bar.

That said.... my 1 year old 1991A1 stainless commander has the best trigger, right out of the box, of any handgun I've ever owned.

5 lb pul (as measured on an old RCBS "fish scale"), no more than 1/16" take up and very crisp break.

Colt may have some problems... but they sure got mine right.

They did go through a brief period when some of the older models had MIM extractors..... you'd probably want to replace yours if it's MIM... but that's not a high dollar part

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If set up properly, a Series 80 trigger pull can be light and crisp. The design requires a little takeup (not the same as "creep"), but you want this on a self defense handgun, IMO.

 

[Drail]

Series 80 triggers are like a box of chocolates..you don't never know what you're going to get.... But seriously, if you get one with a mushy creepy heavy trigger it rarely has anything to do with the Series 80 parts. It's simply a mass produced gun with very little fitting work going into building it. Colt produces just as many Series 70 guns with really funky triggers too. That can be fixed. The only exception is eliminating all of the overtravel. If that is important to you it can still be fixed but only by someone who understands Series 80 trigger work. If the trigger cannot come back far enough to fully unlock the firing pin, it will not fire reliably and will chew up the firing pin and plunger.

 

[Litlman]

I just put an older 1991A1 full size Government model on the lay away plan at my local shop. NIB parkerized ORM. Hang tag still on it with 2 new colt mags. I have been wanting a 1911 for some time and I walked in on this and did some reading and had to have it. The trigger pull was nice & crisp. I will pick it up late next week. Thanks for all the info.

 

[Oro]

Maybe this Colt will have to follow me home.

I hope you get it. That price OTD is very fair. It might inspire you to later find an older Combat Commander in 9mm. I have a minty pre-80 like that and it is a flat joy to shoot.

 

[Erik]

I've experienced good ones and better ones, but never bad ones.

 

[gwnorth]

This one even has the nylon trigger so many folks complain about, but it shoots great - nice crisp trigger break. When I bought it, the previous owner had busted off the "finger" on the series 80 firing pin plunger lever, but that's a $4 part, so I didn't let that stop me from buying it. Just be careful when putting the slide back on, that the plunger lever is sitting down in it's slot (and even then, you'd have to really slam the slide back in place to break it - it's not exactly made of tinfoil afterall).