MedWheeler
Member
No one is "under-gunned" in any life threatening situation, until they are. If I pull a .22 and the bad guy flees, I wasn't "under-gunned."
But, if I fire a .45, score hits, and he keeps coming, I am.
Serious .380 Ammo
- Thread starter roninrlm
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No one is "under-gunned" in any life threatening situation, until they are. If I pull a .22 and the bad guy flees, I wasn't "under-gunned."
But, if I fire a .45, score hits, and he keeps coming, I am.
jimbo555
Member
Using standard federal 95gr.fmj brassfetcher got 18.5 inches of penetration with simulated winter clothing through ballistic gel. That should be enough to reach the vitals. That was with a kel tec p3at.
That's true.
And it may make sense for some people to switch the 380 ammo they use based on the season.
The Golden Sabres in the Shooting Illustrated tests penetrated to 13.8" From what I could tell, they were testing in bare gel - which would better fit the South Florida scenario than the North Dakota in winter scenario.
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/20806/new-life-for-the-380-acp/
Brassfetcher's Golden Saber Gel test only produced 10" of penetration!
http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP ammunition performance in ballistic gelatin.pdf
kokapelli said:
The test was with bare gelatin so 10" is about the norm. A recent test that we conducted (5 shots per test with calibrated FBI spec gelatin) had an average penetration of 16.5" when shot through FBI heavy clothing and 10.5" in bare gel. As you might expect, that increase in penetration comes at the cost of expansion.
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walking arsenal
Member
You guys are acting as if a bullet through someones arm doesn't count. Have we all forgotten human anatomy? Shooting people isn't a math problem, this isn't precision reloading, it's a break-the-system-until-it-shuts-down problem.
Folks, if you shoot a bullet through some person's limb they are going to notice it. No it won't be an instant stopper but few single handgun hits are. That we've established. But you are probably going to sever tendons, disable major muscle groups, tear nerves, and that arm will be out of the fight and dangling useless and bleeding from the "Bad guy's" shoulder.
The "bad guy" probably won't even notice it though because he's going to be busy wishing he was someplace else while sucking up the rest of your magazines ammo supply. Because, "Remember kids! If it's worth shooting once, it's worth shooting a lot!" And any hits from those rounds to the upper thoracic cavity are going to hit something vital. Lungs, heart, arteries, liver, they all lie within less than six inches of the surface. Shoot a hole in a guy's upper chest and they've got a sucking chest wound right now. They can't breath and they are dying.
Look at the picture below. Unless you're fighting Jabba the Hutt or are trying to reach the "Bad guy's" kidneys from the front by shooting trough all that intestine, this 6-10 inches of penetration nonsense is hardly worth losing sleep over. .380 will reach all of that. So will 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45ACP.
Pick a premium hollow point. My choice is Speer Gold Dot out of a Sig P232. Keep good situational awareness, pay attention to who you choose for friends, and go about your business. You'll be plenty safe.
Folks, if you shoot a bullet through some person's limb they are going to notice it. No it won't be an instant stopper but few single handgun hits are. That we've established. But you are probably going to sever tendons, disable major muscle groups, tear nerves, and that arm will be out of the fight and dangling useless and bleeding from the "Bad guy's" shoulder.
The "bad guy" probably won't even notice it though because he's going to be busy wishing he was someplace else while sucking up the rest of your magazines ammo supply. Because, "Remember kids! If it's worth shooting once, it's worth shooting a lot!" And any hits from those rounds to the upper thoracic cavity are going to hit something vital. Lungs, heart, arteries, liver, they all lie within less than six inches of the surface. Shoot a hole in a guy's upper chest and they've got a sucking chest wound right now. They can't breath and they are dying.
Look at the picture below. Unless you're fighting Jabba the Hutt or are trying to reach the "Bad guy's" kidneys from the front by shooting trough all that intestine, this 6-10 inches of penetration nonsense is hardly worth losing sleep over. .380 will reach all of that. So will 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45ACP.
Pick a premium hollow point. My choice is Speer Gold Dot out of a Sig P232. Keep good situational awareness, pay attention to who you choose for friends, and go about your business. You'll be plenty safe.
Talking about heavy clothing penetration, has anyone thought about dripping sealing wax into the hollowpoint?
It very well could aid the bullet in two ways, lubrication and defeating cavity clogging, until it experiences the effects of body hydraulics.
It very well could aid the bullet in two ways, lubrication and defeating cavity clogging, until it experiences the effects of body hydraulics.
^ Hornady thought about putting a flexible medium in the cavity, not wax... Their Flex Tip technology does that.
I don't think I'd mess with waxing commercial ammo, even if I could then test it extensively. I'd just purchase commercial ammo that has been developed to penetrate and shown through testing to penetrate.
I don't think I'd mess with waxing commercial ammo, even if I could then test it extensively. I'd just purchase commercial ammo that has been developed to penetrate and shown through testing to penetrate.
I would think if it were that easy the ammo manufacturers would have done it a long time ago.
Shawn Dodson
Member
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Michael Platt was shot in the right arm multiple times - practically disabling it. Afterward he went on to kill 2 FBI agents and wound 5.
FBI agent Ed Mireles was shot in the arm with a .223 bullet fired by Michael Platt. Mireles ended the fight when he shot both Platt and William Matix.
FBI agents Gordon McNeill and John Hanlon were shot in the hand during the same gunfight. William Matix was shot in the right forearms at the beginning of the battle.
More at - http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm
Roadking Rider
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Just me, mine is loaded with Honady XTP
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I've been using them in my P3at.
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I've been using them in my P3at.
CZF
Member
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- Jan 6, 2003
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- 2,034
Hornady FTX or the DPX like Double Tap BARNES TAC-XP.
Both have decent penetration and fed well in my MDE and LCP.
If you don't trust JHPs then you could always stagger your mags.
Even a JHP in the chamber over six more FMJs would probably work.
I still love my KLCR and 9mm RAMI, but they are too big when you need to
put them in a front pocket, or at least mine.
Both have decent penetration and fed well in my MDE and LCP.
If you don't trust JHPs then you could always stagger your mags.
Even a JHP in the chamber over six more FMJs would probably work.
I still love my KLCR and 9mm RAMI, but they are too big when you need to
put them in a front pocket, or at least mine.
481
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- Feb 22, 2009
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I suppose that's true if your assailant is foolish enough to stand there just like this-
-while you shoot at him.
What happens if he ducks or crouches and raises his arms while firing at you?
Does the pretty picture still represent what you'll be shooting at?
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