Seriously Considering Walther PPS as first handgun

[John Wayne]

In the next month or two, I am looking to purchase my first pistol (well, technically first smokeless, centerfire pistol), which will serve as the weapon with which I intend to take my CWP course. With that in mind, I have selected the PPS for the following reasons:

I need to be able to shoot it well, meaning it has to be large enough to be easily controllable and have a long enough sight radius for me to be accurate with it. It also has to be small and light enough to be comfortably carried under summer clothing (in SC)--I plan to supplement it with a smaller pistol, possibly a NAA Guardian in .32 or .380 later on, but I want a mid-sized pistol with which to qualify for the CWP.

I really like the fact that the Walther comes with different length magazines, which lengthen the grip (not just the standard pinky ledge) almost to full size--this would allow me to practice and qualify with the full-length mags/grip and revert to the shorter mag for concealment. The thinness is also a big selling point for me, as I know I will hesitate to carry a pistol if it's cumbersome. Also, I really like the magazine release. I would almost overlook other autos all together on the off chance that the magazine should be released inadvertantly.

I am not new to firearms by any means, this will just be my first centerfire pistol purchase. I am familiar with the maintenance on autoloaders, and have shot handguns in a wide range of calibers. The Walther seems to be very well designed and built. Before I buy one, however, I would like to hear other opinions. I am open to suggestions, so long as they are in the same category:

-$650 or under (rules out the HK P7, I guess)
-Single stack, 9mm as a minimum caliber
-No external safeties
-Secure magazine release (shrouded or at least with a really strong spring)

Other options I have considered are the Kahr PM9 or a 2" barreled .38revolver, but I keep going back to the Walther in .40 S&W as the strongest contender.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Any help is appreciated.

 

[retgarr]

I don't know much about the walther but it does seem to fit the bill of what you are looking for. There is of course the kah in .40 although I know the ones in .40 have had problems that have needed ironing out by a few warranty trips. Other than that there is the Kel Tec line and not much else for your criteria. Get what you like!

 

[tinygnat219]

If you like it, find it accurate, and it's reliable, I say go for it. However, FOCUS on that RELIABILITY aspect for ANY gun you intend to carry. The last thing you want to do is try to clear a stovepipe on a 2nd or 3rd round.
Mine was reliable enough, I just couldn't get used to the mag release.

 

[John Wayne]

I looked at the PF-9 and will give Kel-Tec credit for the design on this one, but my Sub 2000 hasn't exactly inspired in me the confidence to purchase a carry weapon from the same company.

Unfortunately I doubt I'll be able to shoot one before I buy it, but I haven't heard of any reliability issues other than a few problems with the slide locking back prematurely when the gun was first released.

I also looked at the ''slimline'' Glock, but it really doesn't seem to be that much thinner.

 

[Prince Yamato]

It's a good gun. It's like a single stack Glock 19.

 

[MJRW]

Is there a reason for the single stack requirement? With the right equipment (belt and holster), double stacks don't print substantially more nor are they substantially more difficult to carry. Within your single stack requirement, I do suggest you look at the Sig P239. I'd also like to give a thumbs up to Kahr firearms as being excellent choices for conceal carry.

 

[PX15]

JW:

FWIW:

I have both the HK P7 and Walther PPS. I bought the HK P7 thru CDNN within the past 6 months, and the price was $674.25. The pistol came NIB, and I was so pleased with it's performance that I shortly thereafter ordered two more. The last two "A" grade HK P7's came in "excellent/like new" condition, but not NIB.

My buddy ordered an "A" grade CDNN HK P7 last month with my encouragement, and his pistol also came NIB.

I bought my first Walther PPS in January. It was a very early production pistol 1400+, and after approximately two hundred rounds it developed ejector problems. S&W does warranty work for the PPS and when I called an RA was quickly sent. Shipping both ways, (both times) was free. I still had the problem after it was returned, so another RA was sent out and I sent it back again. I called CS after returning the PPS the 2nd time and told them, not tactfully I'm afraid, to either fix it right, or send me a new one. The senior CS person I was talking to was very professional, and assured me one or the other solutions would be met, and then I felt like a butthole for being rude in the first place.. My bad.

Two weeks later a NIB PPS was delivered to my door. The new PPS is in the 4000+ range, and has been perfect. I consider the first PPS problem to be associated with an early production model, and I am well pleased with my new one.

My observations comparing the two are this:

The HK P7 is absolute top quality, fantastically accurate, and overall a pleasure to shoot. The P7 mag locks in the magwell like closing the door on a bank vault, and I like that. The P7 is heavier than the PPS, and requires a little more maintenance. IF you are "into" target shooting, or range plinking, the HK P7 WILL get warm after 5-6 continious magazines have been fired... Just the nature of the operating system. Not a concern at all for cc duty.

The Walther PPS is lighter than the P7 and has better three white dot sights. The capacity varies w/choice of mags from 6+1 to 8+1. I prefer the 7+1 as it allows for a good grip for the pinky finger, which increases stability and consequently potential accuracy. The 6+1 allows NO hold for the little finger, and IMO (I don't have one) the 8+1 mag would be too bulky for my taste, and would decrease ease of concealment.

I'm NOT a big fan of the ambi-lever mag release on the PPS, although I love it on my P99/AS. I don't consider that a big deal as I never carry a b/u or 2nd magazine anyway. (I always cc a Seecamp LWS32 in a rear pocket, wallet style, holster, no matter what else I'm cc at any time.).

The pistols are approximately the same size and both are very THIN. No doubt the HK P7 is heavier, but extremely accurate and I think as reliable as a pistol can be. The PPS is lighter, and that's the trade off for me.

I am well pleased with both pistols and would recommend either. IF I had (which I haven't) decided to cc the Walther PPS exclusively I would STILL want an HK P7 because it is a classic, unique, and somehow special in an undefinable way.

All personal opinion, contrary opinions welcomed.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[the_fallguy]

I liked the PPS I handled and found it very accurate and easy to operate. It held its own shot for shot with my P7. I strongly considered buying one after selling my P7, but I went with a Kahr TP9 instead. The only reason was that the mag release on the PPS is too dissimilar to all my other pistols, and I didn't want to re-train myself. If I had gone the Walther P99 or H&K route for larger handguns, I would get a PPS without any hesitation.

 

[PX15]

the_fallguy:

You SOLD, S O L D an HK P7?

Um, that's gonna getcha' some bad karma....

Jesse


P.S. Just kiddin' of course.

 

[DrLaw]

Question. How much shooting have you done? If none, I would get a revolver as opposed to a semi-auto. Easier to learn and easier to shoot. If you have some experience, then go with what you want.

The Doc is out now.

 

[FranklyTodd]

PPS was on my short list (had a deposit on one), but (1) too many folks on ppstalk.com and waltherforum.com reported troubles. I even decided to go ahead anyway, thinking S&W's warranty and great service applied, but (2) there's only a lame 1 year warranty - although the service is still great. Add (3) the shortage of available holster designs and I bailed.

I did really like the feel of it though.

I opted for a Sig P239 which I love (DA/SA - no manual safety - single stack - lifetime warranty - great service). Don't let people bad mouth DA/SA. I like the longer heavier first pull - that IS a safety without having to fiddle with one manually. The short reset SA follow up shots are sweet. If you are set on same-pull-every-time, I still say consider Sig with DAK - it's double action only with a lighter (consistent) pull.

One other opinion, since you (kind of) asked - as a first centerfire pistol, you need lots of practice (no offense). 9mm will cost you WAY less to shoot than .40, and despite what the caliber chest-thumpers would have you belive, it's a great defensive caliber. You can cheaply shoot it at the range, then carry +P or +P+ if you like and practically erase the ballistic advantage of .40 (plus in most weapons you get +1 capacity).

The HK proponents have good points, too - I just went with the Sig based on personal preference. EDIT - the revolver suggestion is a good one too (I actually carry my j-frame more than the Sig), but somehow I'm thinking if you are attracted to a PPS a revolver may not float your boat...

 

[buzz_knox]

You SOLD, S O L D an HK P7?

Um, that's gonna getcha' some bad karma....

I'll be a cockroach for eternity then, as I've sold 4 (two PSPs and two M13s).

 

[KBintheSLC]

Within your single stack requirement, I do suggest you look at the Sig P239.

Ditto. I have one in 9mm, and love it to death.

As for Walther, I bought a PPK/S .380 a while back brand new. It proved to be very unreliable after a few hundred rounds so I got rid of it. I have never felt the desire to buy a Walther since.
Granted, the PP is totally different in virtually every respect from the PPK/S, so I cannot judge it. It may be a fine weapon. I would suggest you try to rent one first.

 

[PX15]

buzz_knox:

You SOLD what?

Man, eternity isn't nearly long enough to make up for selling those HK pistols..

Jesse

P.S. I'm thinking like ETERNITY, which is to include several real crappy incarnations, one of which must include a job as a janitor in a Heckler & Koch factory.

 

[PX15]

Frankly Todd:

You will not be unhappy with your Sig P239. I bought one when they were first released and it never missed a beat in all the years, and all the rounds I ran thru it. Absolutely reliable, very accurate.

My only problem with the Sig P239 (once I replaced the original grips w/Crimson Trace Lasergrips) was my pistol had the "long" trigger, and it was just never "perfect" for me. I think had I been smart enough to replace the long trigger with the "short" one I would never have parted with the pistol.

You can't go wrong with a Sig. (Unless it's a dedicated rimfire)

Just personal opinion/no offense intended.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[FranklyTodd]

Thanks, PX15. I had to send mine back once, but it's been solid since.

[M]y pistol had the "long" trigger, and it was just never "perfect" for me.

I'd like to claim credit for picking the short trigger on purpose, but I bought the CCP package which luckily included the short-reset trigger. I can't say I would have hated the standard trigger, but I do like the SRT!!

 

[John Wayne]

My reason for picking a single-stack pistol is that I really can't stand to carry a lot of bulk around anywhere on my person. I keep a maximum of three cards (including driver's license) in my wallet, my phone is thin, and my keychain is devoid of everything but car and house keys, and a bottle opener. Even then, I find myself taking them out of my pocket on relatively short drives or while sitting, just because they get on my nerves. I really don't see myself carrying a pistol the width of a Glock or a snub-nosed revolver.

I have heard good things about SIG pistols, but the sigle-stack variants don't seem to be that much thinner than their double-stack counterparts. That, and the addition of a manual safety, slide stop, etc. make it a bit too wide for my taste--an excellent pistol, no doubt, just not one I think I'd like to conceal.

I was at the range yesterday and had the opportunity to fire the range officer's Kahr PM-9. I would have liked to have spent more time with it, but it was 101 degrees and I was doing well to see straight in the heat. I did find it to my liking though. The trigger was smooth and the pistol felt well-made and well-designed, not awkward like I'd expected. He'd had experienced no problems with various brands of ammo, 3-400 rounds in. One major strike against the PPS though was that of the few he'd seen at the range, all had experienced problems, even after returning to the factory. I hold his opinion in high regard, and this might do it in for the PPS.

I also saw a Rohrbaugh R-9(sp?) in the case at my local gun store. That thing is tiny! I really like this little pistol, but the 1k price tag, and the fact that the manufacturer cautions against +P ammo, recommends that it not be fired often, and the recoil spring needs to be replaced every 500 shots, raise some major red flags.

Am I asking too much, or is there something I've overlooked?

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[retgarr]

Ah the Rohrbaugh. There is nothing wrong with them, think of them as an exotic car. Say a Lotus Exige or such. They are built really for one purpose, to be a supremely small and concealable 9mm for defense purposes. It will hae the reliability you need IF you provide the top notch maintenance it needs. I haven't shot one so I don't know how it feels and because of that I can't recommend it. But I certainly won't say you shouldn't get it either.

 

[the_fallguy]

HMMM..... I will try to get some pics of a PPS against my Kahr TP9 if you think that might help in your decision making. I will do my best to make some time to do that tomorrow.

 

[FranklyTodd]

I don't have time to make a long post, but my 239 has started jamming again - I withdraw my recommendation! http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=383590

I just got a Kahr P9 (not PM9) in trade and it will carry beautifully if I go that route (haven't shot it much - no jams yet, but not enough shots to say it's 100%). It's thinner than the PPS but otherwise about the same size. The PM9 is even smaller, and the way to go if you want to pocket carry, but the P9 is nicer to shoot, and supposedly a little more reliable.

EDIT - the "trade" wasn't for the Sig, I still have that, unfortunately

 

[PX15]

JW:

Well, here's my take on the reports of problems with the Walther PPS.

Keep in mind the pistol has only been on the retail market since around the first of the year. In fact I bought my first PPS in January, and it was in the 14XX serial number range.

Now, I'm almost 66 years old, and I should have learned a long, long time ago NOT to buy a first series, or first run of ANYTHING... It seems any new model anything WILL have teething issues, or "bugs" that will only be discovered AFTER being sold, and discovered by what I call "beta tester" owners.

In the past I did the same thing with the Charter Arms Pathfinder, Taurus PT22, Beretta Tomcat.. Guess this old dog doesn't learn easily, as I did it again with the PPS.

My first PPS was perfect for approximately 200 rounds. Then it had ejector problems, and then Smith & Wesson Customer Service didn't fix it on the first return trip for warranty repair so sent me a new PPS in the 41XX range. No problem, no shipping costs to me at all.

My new PPS has been flawless, and I attribute the ills of the first to simply being a first series, low serial numbered pistol.. I'm of the opinion that for the most part those issues have been discovered and corrected by now, but anything made by man can have a problem, no matter the quality of materials or price.

The new Ruger LCP 380 is a prime example of that.

My experience with Walther firearms consists of over two decades of having either a surplus Walther PP, P1, P5, P99c/AS, P99/AS and NONE of them had one problem.. None.

I was amazed at the ejector problem of my first PPS because trouble with a Walther was just almost unheard of in my personal experience. I think the PPS is fine now, and I would recommend them without reservation. On the unlikely chance you still got one with a problem it would be corrected, free, from the good folks at S&W Customer Service, no problem.

If you want THIN, and light, and amazingly accurate 9mm pistol, I think you'd be hard pressed to beat a new PPS. I'm often torn between my HK P7 and the PPS for cc but generally as much as I love my (heavier) P7 I wind up taking the PPS because it's so light and concealable.

In my part of the world (SE GA) the PPS is still hard to find, and I'm glad I have mine.

Just personal opinion, no offense to the Kahr guys.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[John Wayne]

PX15:

Thanks for the input. Any idea as to which serial numbers I should watch out for (below 2,000?). Also, what is your opinion of the backstrap "quick safe" feature?

 

[PX15]

JW:

I don't know what numbers to tell you to stay away from, but I'd be willing to bet the serial numbers available to dealers now at greater than 6,000 - 8,000. I should think those would be relatively bug free. As I mentioned my # 41XX has been flawless. (So far).

As to the backstrap deal.

My understanding is that the backstrap issue was also related to very early models, and then only affecting the large backstrap. When my PPS first got here I tried both and as usual the smaller backstrap was perfect for my taste.

I've yet to have a problem taking off, or putting on, either. The removable part has "line up" dots to show you where to do what, and I should think anyone of average intelligence (or less in my case) would have no problems changing them out, or just taking them off and putting them back on.

As with anything you need to be gentle and not FORCE the backstrap on, but that's pretty much common sense whether you are talking PPS backstraps, or your old hs cheerleader girlfriend.. Or as in one case of mine,trying to get the male Chow Chow into the vet's office when he was determined not to go..

I will say there can be a DEFINITE difference in how your pistol will shoot depending on which backstrap fits your hands best. My P99c/AS was a tack driver with the small backstrap at self defense range, but swap out to the larger backstrap and accuracy fell off, big time.. So IMO it IS important to use the backstrap best suited to YOU.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[searcher451]

I've had a First Edition PPS since last fall. I've put hundreds of rounds through it, and it has performed flawlessly. It is both accurate and reliable, and you can't ask for more than that in any handgun. The gun is easy to shoot, easy to conceal, and the three different capacity magazines provide you with some carry options. What's not to like?

 

[John Wayne]

Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific--have you ever been worried that the backstrap could come loose accidentally (rendering the gun unusable) during recoil?