Servicio Aventuras vs. CCI Primers Updated Nov.3

[J-Bar]

Nov. 3 update:

I was able to shoot these same loads today in two different revolvers. First a 1978 Smith and Wesson Model 14-4, 6":



Then a 1962 Smith and Wesson Model 28-2, 6":



The only thing I demonstrated today was that a shaky old man was doing the shooting. That may have been the case with the pair of targets that I posted originally.

So my apologies to Servicios Aventuras small pistol primers for inferring that they may adversely affect accuracy. At least if there is an accuracy difference between SA and CCI primers, it will likely require a machine rest to prove it.

The Servicios Aventuras hardness issue persisted. Shooting both revolvers in single action mode, out of the 24 shots with the Model 14, there were 3 failures to fire on the first strike. All three of those ignited on the second strike. There were no FTFs with the Model 28, and no FTFs with the CCI primers.

Again, thanks for the interest. I appreciate those who posted comments.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Nov. 3 update:

I was able to shoot these same loads today in two different revolvers. First a 1978 Smith and Wesson Model 14-4, 6":

View attachment 1178331

Then a 1962 Smith and Wesson Model 28-2, 6":

View attachment 1178332

The only thing I demonstrated today was that a shaky old man was doing the shooting. That may have been the case with the pair of targets that I posted originally.

So my apologies to Services Aventuras small pistol primers for inferring that they may adversely affect accuracy. At least if there is an accuracy difference between SA and CCI primers, it will likely require a machine rest to prove it.

The Servicios Aventuras hardness issue persisted. Shooting both revolvers in single action mode, out of the 24 shots with the Model 14, there were 3 failures to fire on the first strike. All three of those ignited on the second strike. There were no FTFs with the Model 28, and no FTFs with the CCI primers.

Again, thanks for the interest. I appreciate those who posted comments.

Bottom line with pistols it takes a Ransom Rest secured to definitively ascertain accuracy ,IMO . As illustrated some days ALL of us are better than other days . You'd think after shooting 64 years , I'd have it down pat by now . That's what I said too myself when Basic training concluded !.

I soon realized the emphasis in the training manual ,you all know that part . When the enemy is in range SO ARE YOU .

Everything was under control until the 1 St. engagement and REALITY swiftly kicked in , THOSE TARGETS SHOT BACK

 

[dartor]

Nov. 3 update:

I was able to shoot these same loads today in two different revolvers. First a 1978 Smith and Wesson Model 14-4, 6":

View attachment 1178331

Then a 1962 Smith and Wesson Model 28-2, 6":

View attachment 1178332

The only thing I demonstrated today was that a shaky old man was doing the shooting. That may have been the case with the pair of targets that I posted originally.

So my apologies to Services Aventuras small pistol primers for inferring that they may adversely affect accuracy. At least if there is an accuracy difference between SA and CCI primers, it will likely require a machine rest to prove it.

The Servicios Aventuras hardness issue persisted. Shooting both revolvers in single action mode, out of the 24 shots with the Model 14, there were 3 failures to fire on the first strike. All three of those ignited on the second strike. There were no FTFs with the Model 28, and no FTFs with the CCI primers.

Again, thanks for the interest. I appreciate those who posted comments.

Thanks, my keyboard is soaking wet from me drooling over your revolvers. Those are two beautiful Smiths.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Nov. 3 update:

I was able to shoot these same loads today in two different revolvers. First a 1978 Smith and Wesson Model 14-4, 6":

View attachment 1178331

Then a 1962 Smith and Wesson Model 28-2, 6":

View attachment 1178332

The only thing I demonstrated today was that a shaky old man was doing the shooting. That may have been the case with the pair of targets that I posted originally.

So my apologies to Servicios Aventuras small pistol primers for inferring that they may adversely affect accuracy. At least if there is an accuracy difference between SA and CCI primers, it will likely require a machine rest to prove it.

The Servicios Aventuras hardness issue persisted. Shooting both revolvers in single action mode, out of the 24 shots with the Model 14, there were 3 failures to fire on the first strike. All three of those ignited on the second strike. There were no FTFs with the Model 28, and no FTFs with the CCI primers.

Again, thanks for the interest. I appreciate those who posted comments.

Have I ever mentioned how jealous I am of that Model 14 of yours? Absolutely gorgeous! I just sold my 4” Combat Masterpiece Model 15-3 and am missing it already. I understand the appeal of such a fine machine.
Nice write up. Thanks for sharing.

 

[anothernewb]

I concur with the others on the SA perhaps being repackaged SR primers. Certainly would explain a lot.

Looks like some 223 testing is in order. If they function is a CCI 41 replacement this could be good.

 

[LV Gun]

I have used 5000 SA primers already, did not adjust my loads at all I find they do what they are supposed to do, have I had I few FTF,s yes I have but my opinion is they have kept me going to the range so I really have no complaints. As far as seating them I just seat them a little harder and not so much by feel like domestic ones. I am currently using Servicios Aventuras, Unis Ginex, Aguila and Magtech primers and will probably continue with all of them if they continue to be available.

 

[2ndtimer]

S & A SPP primers were something I purchased in desperation when the shelves were empty. I never had a miss fire with them but I clean the pocket and turn the casing 180 and press again when loading them. Now that there are CCI primers in stock locally,I have moved them to the WTSHTF stock category. I feel a lot more secure knowing there are 2000 on hand if needed in future droughts which I'm sure will be coming

If you really are concerned about a WSHTF scenario, maybe you should save your 100% reliable primers, and shoot up the “mostly“ reliable primers punching holes in paper or plinking before the worst occurs.

 

[dannyd]

Just got 600 Fiocchi to try, Used Aguila and Murom little tight, but a spray of Hornady One Shot clears that up.

I have shot 11,896 rounds this year thanks to the supply of foreign primers, because I have more money than time left to shoot, I buy what is available, the foreign companies have come through and I will continue to use them or whatever I can find.

My biggest enemy is Paper and Cardboard, so right now I am winning the battle.

The other night 15 yards with SA primers, working on my speed shooting with a revolver for USPSA match. Moving from sight focus to target focus is hard after 50 years of shooting in the bullseye position.

 

[Barmcd]

I feel your pain! During the mega drought I bought 1,500 SA primers off GB. The price wasn’t outrageous, and I was getting into the danger zone of running out of SPP, so I took a chance. I loaded the 1,500 SA SPP that I bought and had some FTF issues on the first strike with several of my S&W .38’s. (On the bright side, they do make decent “flinch trainers” though!)

I bought a bunch of Federal, Winchester and CCI when those reappeared, I am hoping to be done with the SA primed cases soon.

Just my little bit of experience with them, YMMV.

Stay safe.

I like that term: "Flinch trainers"

 

[Charlie98]

Just got 600 Fiocchi to try,

I was at the LGS this Saturday, and they had a pretty sizeable stack of Fiocchi LP primers. I need to check my inventory to see if I need to pick some up and give them a try. Mostly what my LGS had was Winchester SP and SPM's, which I won't use, but I'm fixing to blow through some LP's after the first of the year.

 

[dannyd]

I was at the LGS this Saturday, and they had a pretty sizeable stack of Fiocchi LP primers. I need to check my inventory to see if I need to pick some up and give them a try. Mostly what my LGS had was Winchester SP and SPM's, which I won't use, but I'm fixing to blow through some LP's after the first of the year.

I used about 81,000 Winchester Small pistol, but only have about 4,000 left. They always worked good for me, but at 100 dollars thousand with (shipping and hazmat) the foreign primer's will work for what I do at half the price.

I switched from LP to SP on 45 ACP, so I only have to stock one type of primer.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

The penny makes the primer plugger go up further to seat the primer a little deeper. It's a trick some guy came up years ago because after a while the original base wears out. That press has 120,802 rounds on it, so I added the penny couple of years back.

If you youtube or google the fix, you use a penny because its soft and spark resistance.

I had to send my press into Hornady for a timing issue that they didn't resolve, but while they had it they took my piece of utility knife blade I had on my press off, and put a steel disc on it.
Apparently, a piece of copper or brass (non-sparking) isn't a concern of Hornady's.
This is the factory repair now.

Most mechanical parts wear. When my 30 year old ProJector primer seat wore in a little, I just adjusted the threaded foot under the ram... I didn't have to glue a penny to the press.

I guess a person could buy a shim assortment to act as washers, but honestly, Ive never had a problem with the way mine primed unto I got a hold of those black Winchester primers.
They totally wrecked my priming system. Constantly jamming, wouldn't feed, getting stuck under the shell plate. locking up my press. I had to replace some parts on it to get it to prime correctly again. I have 3 sleeves of them left is someone wants to come get them. I'll give them away.

I saw some adverse report on "Winchester black primers". Yes, the sealant in these is black, not red or yellow. What's up?

Winchester primer color

I was loading some 9mm luger cases a few minutes ago and needed to fill some primer tubes and did a Hard Stop! I opened a new box of primers from Winchester I bought recently, and they are a different color than they have been in the last 53 years of me using them. Has anyone seen these before...

www.thehighroad.org

What's up is Winchester took on a government contract for supplying primers to the military this spring or last fall. The military wanted to be able to tell the difference between what they were buying and what was being supplied to the civilians.
So Winchester's priming engineers decided to use the same color for civilian primers as they are using for magnum primers and the military get's all the red primers from now on.
I found this out this spring, when I bought a case of 5k and they were black instead of red so I called Winchester to find out if I had a mixed product. Magnum primers in standard packaging.
It turned out most of Winchester's people didn't know they changed color either and they were making arrangements to recall a bunch of them when they found out from the priming engineers that the color was changed on purpose and they were standard primers.
When they called to tell me the primers were ok to use as standard primers, they also told me that they need to work on their internal communication skills since no one there knew about this except the engineers.
The red primers are still the same primers they always were, but I don't think the black ones now don't go through the quality controls they have in place. I had to hand prime everyone of these from that brick I bought, because they were either out of round or egg shaped or something. They won't feed through any primer feeder I have.

I recently bought a new APP deluxe press to prime with and I wanted see if these will run through that press, but I changed my mind. I tried it with the red Winchester primers and they worked fine so I'm not wrecking a new machine trying to run primers that I know are no good.
I'm not saying all of the black ones are like this, I may have just gotten a bad brick, but I'm not using anymore of them, unless they are the last primers available on Earth.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Nov. 3 update:

I was able to shoot these same loads today in two different revolvers. First a 1978 Smith and Wesson Model 14-4, 6":

View attachment 1178331

Then a 1962 Smith and Wesson Model 28-2, 6":

View attachment 1178332

The only thing I demonstrated today was that a shaky old man was doing the shooting. That may have been the case with the pair of targets that I posted originally.

So my apologies to Servicios Aventuras small pistol primers for inferring that they may adversely affect accuracy. At least if there is an accuracy difference between SA and CCI primers, it will likely require a machine rest to prove it.

The Servicios Aventuras hardness issue persisted. Shooting both revolvers in single action mode, out of the 24 shots with the Model 14, there were 3 failures to fire on the first strike. All three of those ignited on the second strike. There were no FTFs with the Model 28, and no FTFs with the CCI primers.

Again, thanks for the interest. I appreciate those who posted comments.

That's good news. Nice guns by the way.

 

[Charlie98]

This is the factory repair now.

Not that the ProJector isn't without it's faults... but not engineering in an adjustable primer seat was pretty dumb on the LNL.

they also told me that they need to work on their internal communication skills since no one there knew about this except the engineers.

I think there is a lot of that going on over at Winchester, right now. Winchester (ammunition) reminds me a little bit of Colt Firearms, when they would come in and out of Big Government contracts... and let the commercial side of the works get a little out of hand while they concentrated on the fat contracts. At this point, I don't trust Winchester components.

 

[dannyd]

I had to send my press into Hornady for a timing issue that they didn't resolve, but while they had it they took my piece of utility knife blade I had on my press off, and put a steel disc on it.
Apparently, a piece of copper or brass (non-sparking) isn't a concern of Hornady's.
This is the factory repair now.


Hornady service are the guy's that told me to use a penny.