Sharpening: Part Umpteem Bazillon

[sm]

We have sticky's about sharpening.
The Internet has numerous "hits" about sharpening.

Me? I grew up learning to freehand sharpen. Just "how raised-what you do". For one, one never knew when they might have to "sharpen" or "touch up" a blade, or any tool. Second, in a work I did, there was no way in "heck" to use a "gidget" or gadget.

Sharp is simply sharp for task for the tool one is using.

I mean, this ain't rocket science.

My experiences include, but not limited to, having to sharpen knives, under tornado conditions, with Coleman lantern light, and flashlight.

Then again a Nicholson file, will sharpen pocket knife, "hunting" knife, axe and machete...

I was simply Mentored to have "mindset", "skill sets" and then "tool sets". Okay, perhaps it also put "run what you brung".

Oh, I can show off, as some members around here have seen my results....
and put the prettiest, neatest, mirror edge on a knife. An edge some are afraid to use as it is "too sharp".

But my EDC's currently do NOT have mirror edges. I am on a farm, and my work...well...my knives "scare" folks, they cut, but the finest grit they have is about 600.

Lacking a good piece of leather, I often strop using the back of a legal pad, or my blue jeans, or of late, the pamphlet for a county fair currently going on.

What do I use?
Well...I "had" some diamond hones, varying from coarse to super fine, but I pulled a stupid, and took them to work, where they "walked off".

Thankfully, after doing some "review and testing" for another member here, with some knives and some DMT stuff...I have a couple of DMT tools ( and I am still ticked, as I do this "review and testing" at no charge, because I want to.]

But I also got a new "tool". An Ace Hardware, fine and coarse grit 4" stone. A five dollar stone, akin to a Norton, "black/gray".

Delivery fellow, had a dull knife. We were talking and I made a comment about running down to Ace, the only hardware store in the small, small town I live near, and after work, I could fix him up. Meaning, sharpen his knives. Yes, I used a five dollar , four inch Ace combo grit stone. I fine tuned one knife, using the top of my vehicle window...

He does a lot of cutting cardboard boxes, "strapping tape" and heavy string/cord and...delivery driver stuff.

He just needs "sharp" for his task. So I freehand sharpened his knives, and trust me, these work a whole lot better than "box" openers...

I felt sorta sad for the fellow, as his grandpa died as he was sharing this kind of thing with him and his dad being a no count, never "parented" him, much less passed anything forward to him. [nothing of any good anyway].

So I was just doing how raised, by passing forward, and sharing how to freehand sharpen with a fellow. Nice guy about half my age. Soon he will be moving as his wife is going to take a better job, more near family.

This fellow will never enter a "sharp" competition, never have to slice two liter bottles or rope to "prove" his knives are sharp.

All he needs is "sharp for task" being a delivery driver, while he attends college.

Steve

 

[jef2015]

Your point is, as I understand, it doesn't take an expensive tool to sharpen a knife? I agree, a $5 stone will sharpen fine, if you can keep a consistent and correct angle. I don't like the fact I paid $5 for stones and $45 for a piece of plastic to make sure I have a consistent angle ($50 sharpmaker) but the results are nice.

 

[Carl Levitian]

Steve, your post is a breath of fresh air!

I get so tired of these posts of what is better, a Sharpmaker or Edge Pro, or some other wonder gadget named. I've come to think that the rising generation of knife people don't know how to sharpen a knife. At least not without some hundred dollar gadget that won't fit in a pocket or backpack.

I always figured if you had a knife on you, you should have a small hone on you. For years now I've carried one of those little Eze-Lap model L hones with most of the red plastic handle cut off. It fits in the zipper part of my wallet, and lets me touch up a blade anywhere, anytime.

I was poking around up in my attic some months ago, and found a box of old stuff, and in it was my old Boy Scout pocket stone. A rough old gray carborundum stone in a worn leather pocket pouch. Just for yuks, I started to use it for sharpening when I was at home, and it worked just fine. IN fact, I have went back to a courser grit on my edges now, and I find the knife stays sharper longer, bites through fiberous stuff like rope and twine better, slices meat better, and is faster to sharpen up on.

Sometimes we tend to forget the K.I.S.S. principle.

Carl.

 

[hso]

The more complex sharpeners are for folks that don't know how to hand sharpen yet. Few people know this skill any longer and don't have anyone to show them and adjust their hand for them while they get the feel for keeping the angle for the bevel. Video only does so much good.

I've sharpened on the bottom of a coffee mug and stropped on the top of a car window followed up with the side of my boot, but I'd rather have real stones and strops if they're available.

If you know how to sharpen by hand you're not in the middle of nowhere naked you can usually find the materials to put a utility edge on a knife.

 

[bikerdoc]

I have accumulated maybe 10 or 15 stones over the years in various grits. Plus I have a Lansky and a Gatco gathering dust.
The only two I carry in my pocket are small EZ lap diamonds in 600 and 1200.

Strop on cardboard, or boot.= done.

All I need to stay sharp.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Gadgets

Normally, I'm all about the gadgets.

However, I have a nice EdgePro Apex that I resolved not to use until I could successfully put "shaving" edges on the wide range of newer knives I now have with freehand techniques.

As of a couple of weeks ago, I finally satisfied myself that I can git 'r done across the whole range of kitchen knives, recent folders, fixed blades of varying angles and so on.

Like many of you, I've had to improvise. On one occasion in England (where I was standing in as dishwasher for three months) I sat down and restored edges on half a dozen very used kitchen knives in the "galley" (as we called it). I used the bottoms of (generic restaurant grade) coffee cups. I would work on a knife until the porcelain got fouled with removed metal, switch to a clean cup (hey, we had hundreds), and carry on until the edge was usable again. It took a couple of hours. It turns out that when you're grabbing volunteers to do kitchen duty, you don't necessarily get guys who have any experience with sharpness. Oh, and the grounds keeper wouldn't turn loose of his stone, either. Can't say I blame him, people were always "borrowing" his tools, with bad results.

This coming weekend, one of my projects is to figure out this new-fangled gadget, and see if it can do a better job than I can.


(Oh, in the truck, I keep a Smith diamond steel and a similar, but finer, Kershaw branded diamond pocket steel.)

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

I wish I had someone to teach me. ;_;

 

[WayBeau]

Being guilty of seeking a "gadget" (see the Sharpening sticky at top of page), I guess I need to learn to free-hand it. Unfortunately, I'm like Spec Ops and need someone to teach me.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Teach?

Well, aside from having to figure out on your own the technique for holding your hand at a steady and constant angle, you're in luck.

Rumor has it that there are sharpening videos on YouTube.

Also, there are any number of diagram drawings out there on the Web.

And probably the one thing that can't be conveyed by a drawing: don't apply too much pressure. The stone will cut away the metal that needs to be removed with a remarkably gentle application of pressure. Too much pressure will not only remove more metal than necessary, but also impart defects to the edge that take even more work to remove.

Yeah, it's steel, but it's not nearly as hard as the stone is.

And then, once you have a decent edge, what you have is a very thin, and easily bent, strip of steel, and that's where gentle counts even more.

Here's what I suggest, if you want to learn on your own: go buy a knife made of a decent steel, but not one costing bags of money. For example, a large sodbuster will cost you somewhere around $25. Resolve that you are willing to ruin this knife as part of the process of learning (don't worry, you won't, just be willing for it to happen). Cut up a bunch of cardboard. Cardboard contains clay, as do most paper products, and the clay will act as an abrasive. Once the knife is clearly no longer "shaving sharp" as it was when you got it, then set about the business of giving it back its edge.

My first knife that I deliberately bought to mistreat in this fashion was a Schrade Uncle Henry stockman that I found for $8 in a pawn shop. I was about to buy a nice stockman, and I wanted to practice on a "disposable" version first. Happily, I did *not* ruin the Schrade (I carry it in my EDC rotation), but by the time I had to dress the edges on my new stockman (actually several by now), I could proceed with confidence, not worrying about scratching the sides of the blade (as you will probably do when you're learning) or wrecking the edge.

Now I pick up a diamond steel in the kitchen and dress my edges whenever there's a hint of drag when I'm cutting something, and I do it with confidence. I no longer "wonder if I'm gonna get it wrong." (BTW, I don't let the foot-long diamond steel wave and wiggle around, I rest the tip on a towel or hotpad to steady it. If you're gonna keep a constant angle, either the knife or the sharpening medium needs to remain still.)

It's really not as hard as all that. Yes, it's easy to do it wrong, but there are even more ways to wreck a car, and you already don't do that, so get a knife and dive in.

What you learn will last you a lifetime.

 

[WayBeau]

Arfin,
Thanks for the advice. Do you have any suggestions on the type/grit/brand of stone I should look for when starting out? If I'm going to learn, I may as well learn to do it right.

 

[hso]

I wish I had someone to teach me. ;_;

There are knife sharpeners and knife makers all over. If you are serious about learning you can find a pro to teach you if you don't want to spend the time to learn through trial and error.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Grits?

Well, actually, I'll toss that question out to our knife makers and hso.

I know things like "coarse" and "medium" and "fine" and "extra fine."

A regular two-sided stone like you'll find in a hardware store will typically have a "coarse" and "fine" side. I don't know what the actual grits are.

Diamond steels also come in coarse and fine, but the coarse side of a diamond steel doesn't seem to be as coarse as a coarse stone. A fine diamond steel (flat or oval) seems to be just a little finer than a fine stone. However, there are "Arkansas" stones that have a soft and hard side. The soft side is more a medium and the hard side is more fine.

It is my understanding that 600-to-1,000 grit is considered "fine" in stones, and that 200 and 300 grit are considered coarse. A stone in 2,000-4,000 grit would be extra fine. And 8,000 would be super fine, for polishing.

Generally, unless you're dealing with edge damage (nicks, chips, or just plain won't-cut-anything dull) you would not normally need to drop below 600 grit.

These people here, SharpeningSupplies, carry all manner of stuff, and they also have explanations for stuff like grit and stone quality. They have a sharpening basics page.

However, the [thread=8341]Sharpening FAQ thread[/thread] stickied at the top of this forum is a heck of a resource, so wade in there as well.

Also, like hso observed above, it shouldn't be hard to find someone within spitting distance of where you are who can provide a physical tutorial.

 

[sm]

Thanks folks, I truly appreciate the positive feedback.

I wish I had someone to teach me. ;_;

Ask.

Pride and ego comes before a human being fails and falls.[It'll also get you kilt Young'un... ]- Mentor

Just pay attention to folks and you will come across someone that knows how to free hand sharpen. It might be a family member, a friend, or that friends family member, a co-worker. Someone that does farming, ranching, or is into woodworking are some other folks to ask.

Passing it forward: Darn it! If'n you know how to free hand sharpen, then get off your butt and Mentor someone!

Invest in say a diamond credit card sharpener, with the intent of "giving it away" to someone. To keep it- give it away. I recommend one in 600 grit as it will take care of 90% of most sharpening needs, including most of the new "steels" on the market today.

It may be the gal with a Classic SD that needs to touch up a blade, or a fellow in Shipping & Receiving with a Buck 110, or a coworker with a Kershaw Leek, or...the folks that invited you and yours over for steaks on the grill (whatever) and the spoon for the ice cream is more sharp than the kitchen knives...

Just, when you "pass forward" and share how to free hand sharpen with another, let them know, in order to "Keep it- Give it away" they in like turn will assist another, and another.

This way the "circle" stays unbroken.

Sending best-

Steve

 

[JVoutilainen]

Well, actually, I'll toss that question out to our knife makers and hso.

I'm not a knife maker, but I make wooden furniture as a living and that means anything I use for cutting must be kept extra sharp (I don't get paid by the hour).

I use a grit 240 King waterstone (I use it dry) for the initial grinding (of a knife) and go straight to grit 1000 waterstone (wet). After that I stop the blade and make a micro bevel either with the grit 1000 waterstone, or a leather strop - a leather strop mostly, these days.

I know this is against the 'rules', because I use a waterstone dry, and skip many steps (grits) in the process, but for me it works. It must be said also that I settle for nothing less than hair whittling sharp.

Practice, practice, practice. And don't spend you money on expensive sharpening toys. What ever your method repetition is the key to success, because it is all about hand-eye coordination and muscle memory.

 

[bikerdoc]

On the matter of passing it on:

I have had a rudimentary knowledge of sharpening since childhood. Good enough to get the job done. The sticky, SM, a former member called tourist, HSO, and a bunch of others gave me a lot of education to the point I can now charge for sharpening.

I have taught many, but one kid was so attentive he now can sharpen for clients.

Ya, passing on is good.

 

[hso]

I do want to emphasize that it is important to know how to sharpen freehand since that allows you to use improvised sharpening gear as well as dedicated sharpening gear.

I also would be negligent if I didn't point out that dedicated sharpeners are better than improvised and will give you a better edge. Don't mistake some of our ability to get a working edge with the bottom of coffee cups and window tops as meaning that ceramic sharpening stones and natural stones and diamond "hones" are not preferable. You will get a better edge with stones and hones and purpose built sharpeners.

 

[22-rimfire]

I agree hso. I am certainly not an expert in terms of holding a constant angle when sharpening on bench stones, but I can put a pretty fair edge on a knife. "Hair popping" edges are nice and a good conversation piece, but frankly I don't require such an edge on evey knife. I want good using sharp.

With the harder steels that are common these days, certainly a diamond bench stone is the way I would go. It is just easier and quicker. I use DMT stones, but there are lots of faily nice stones available at places like Lowes and Home Depot or in my area, Ace Hardware stores that don't cost a fortune.

I certainly like gadgets. But with the sharpening systems like Lansky, Sharpmaker etc., I tend to buy them and use them a couple times and go back to bench stones.

The ceramic V sharpeners are easy to use and good for touching up an edge.

I have lots of sharpening stones. Some have never been used. I have a hard time not buying a new one that catches me eye. I would avoid picking up a very hard (aka very fine grit) Arkansas stone for cheap that you might see as "seconds" at stores in Arkansas and places like that. I did that years ago and it seemed like I had zero effect in creating a sharp knife and I can sharpen a knife. More than likely, I was and am just impatient.

The "stones" that have a coarse and fine sides are pretty flexible. You will mostly use the fine side, but the coarse is there if you really need to work on a very dull edge. Resist using a lot of pressure when sharpening. With the diamond sharpeners, I'm told that you can actually wear off the diamonds this way or partially remove them. Just use a steady light pressure; something a little more than the natural weight of the knife.

Hand sharpening is a good skill to develop.

 

[M-Cameron]

I like using the lansky system to re-profile an edge.....or to work on an edge that is in need of serious help.....because it produces a nice consistent edge angle, and makes re profiling a snap....

but ive found i cant really get a nice sharp edge on one........so after i use the lansky system, i touch up the edge free hand on a barber hone........then do a quick final stropping......gives me a nice shaving sharp edge...

...now do i need an edge that sharp.....well no........but it sure does impress.

 

[sm]

hso wrote:

I do want to emphasize that it is important to know how to sharpen freehand since that allows you to use improvised sharpening gear as well as dedicated sharpening gear.

I also would be negligent if I didn't point out that dedicated sharpeners are better than improvised and will give you a better edge. Don't mistake some of our ability to get a working edge with the bottom of coffee cups and window tops as meaning that ceramic sharpening stones and natural stones and diamond "hones" are not preferable. You will get a better edge with stones and hones and purpose built sharpeners.

I agree 1000% !

 

[JLaw]

Always enjoy your knife related posts, lots of good back to basics discussion in them. You are right, it is not rocket science!

Years ago one of your sharpening posts turned me onto freehand sharpening and got me away from relying on machines and gizmos. I purchased a Case Sodbuster Jr with CV blade, an 8" Norton India stone and several pocket Norton India stones. Haven't turned back yet!

I'll admit that I have not mastered the pocket stones yet, but that is a sure way to make sure you always have access to a sharp knife.

JLaw