Shaving Bullets- Ruger Mark IV

Status
Not open for further replies.

Panzerschwein

member
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
8,122
Location
Desert
Guys got my Ruger Mark IV to the range and it was great, 300 rounds of CCI mini mag 40 grain round nose without a hitch. But, I noticed I was getting peppered with little particles upon firing the gun.

Took it home to clean it and found a bunch of copper shavings that are no doubt from the bullet coating:

20170508_204202.jpg


20170508_204227_1.jpg


Went outside and carefully cycled some rounds through it (safe direction etc.) and inspected the cartridges. Upon chambering, the gun is scraping the bottom edge of the bullets and causing these metal shavings to go flying. Looking at my feed ramp I think it is somewhat sharp at the bottom and this might be digging into the bullets.

20170508_211433-1.jpg


The first two on the left are scraped, the one on the right was not cycled through the action.

Can I expect this to go away after a break in? Is this normal for .22 auto pistols? Should I send it back to Ruger, or just polish the feed ramp? If so, how do you do that?

Please help guys. Thanks!
 
I was getting peppered with little particles upon firing the gun.

The particles could be powder residue. Try different ammo first, it may fix both problems.

If particles are hitting you in the face, return to Ruger.

CCI Standard velocity ammo tends to be the cleanest.

The rub marks on the bullets could come from how the magazine releases the rounds.

My MK1 gets lots of residue build up. When it keeps the bolt from fully closing, i scrape out the crud.
 
The particles could be powder residue. Try different ammo first, it may fix both problems.

If particles are hitting you in the face, return to Ruger.

CCI Standard velocity ammo tends to be the cleanest.

The rub marks on the bullets could come from how the magazine releases the rounds.

My MK1 gets lots of residue build up. When it keeps the bolt from fully closing, i scrape out the crud.

Nope, it is copper. You can see a big piece of it in the second picture. I didn't notice anything hitting my face, just my forearms when shooting.
 
Yes, i seen the copper thing. The coating on the bullet is very thin, i just dont see it being a problem. I checked some CCI 22 shorts and another brand thats copper coated, very thin.

Could the copper be from the case and not the bullet?

As long as the gun functions correctly, i would not worry about it. But that just me.
 
It may have been from the case as well because I also found tiny particles that looked like brass... just kind of worried something is wrong here.
 
Try different ammo.

The quality in many brands these days is not what it once was.

Of the 6 types i have now, 3 have minor problems.
Misfire from bad priming.
Action wont fully close-bulge at case mouth from over crimping.
Case head bulging on firing.
Ammo does it in rifle or handgun.


The only good thing is the defects are only a few rounds in each brand.
 
You have positive confirmation of ramp contact on your bullets - the last picture clearly shows it. Troubleshooting 22LR pistols is remarkably easy. When you get a cut/gouge in the tip of the bullet, and the cartridges don't feed into the chamber at all, you know it's hitting the top of the chamber, so your mag lips are bad. When you get gouges or smears on the side of tip and shoulder of the ogive of the bullet, it's the bottom of the ramp, when you get smears at the base of the bullet or mouth of the case (like what you have pictured above), it's the top of the ramp. Looking at the picture taken through your ejection port, there is a clear lip at the chamber mouth at the head of the ramp. Don't go nuts with it, but very slightly dress the chamber entrance to better match the ramp, and that scraping will go away. Don't make a continuous ramp, but knock a slight bevel/radius onto the bottom of the chamber there. Problem solved.

Having copper AND brass chips, with the ammunition you're using, remains to be confirmation of the same issue - a sharp lip at the head of the feed ramp. Look at your cartridges in the picture above - the scrape/smear is at the bearing surface of the bullet, nearly where the heels meet the case - so it makes sense to see both copper and brass chips. Take the recoil spring out of the top of your bolt and push a round out of the magazine slowly; you'll be able to see the feed cycle, and be able to realize how that type of contact happens. You'll see the tip of the bullet make contact with the ramp, then you'll see the chamber mouth make contact with the side of the bullet as the bolt pushes it forward and tries to bend the cartridge as the rim hasn't yet cleared the mag lips, but the bullet is trying to feed into the chamber - just for an instant, before it pops free and the cartridge changes angle to finish feeding into the chamber.

Pretty simple problem to troubleshoot, and pretty simple problem to fix.
 
You have positive confirmation of ramp contact on your bullets - the last picture clearly shows it. Troubleshooting 22LR pistols is remarkably easy. When you get a cut/gouge in the tip of the bullet, and the cartridges don't feed into the chamber at all, you know it's hitting the top of the chamber, so your mag lips are bad. When you get gouges or smears on the side of tip and shoulder of the ogive of the bullet, it's the bottom of the ramp, when you get smears at the base of the bullet or mouth of the case (like what you have pictured above), it's the top of the ramp. Looking at the picture taken through your ejection port, there is a clear lip at the chamber mouth at the head of the ramp. Don't go nuts with it, but very slightly dress the chamber entrance to better match the ramp, and that scraping will go away. Don't make a continuous ramp, but knock a slight bevel/radius onto the bottom of the chamber there. Problem solved.

Having copper AND brass chips, with the ammunition you're using, remains to be confirmation of the same issue - a sharp lip at the head of the feed ramp. Look at your cartridges in the picture above - the scrape/smear is at the bearing surface of the bullet, nearly where the heels meet the case - so it makes sense to see both copper and brass chips. Take the recoil spring out of the top of your bolt and push a round out of the magazine slowly; you'll be able to see the feed cycle, and be able to realize how that type of contact happens. You'll see the tip of the bullet make contact with the ramp, then you'll see the chamber mouth make contact with the side of the bullet as the bolt pushes it forward and tries to bend the cartridge as the rim hasn't yet cleared the mag lips, but the bullet is trying to feed into the chamber - just for an instant, before it pops free and the cartridge changes angle to finish feeding into the chamber.

Pretty simple problem to troubleshoot, and pretty simple problem to fix.

Thank you that is very informative. Regardless, the gun is on it's way back to Ruger. THEY should see what they did wrong and THEY should be the ones that fix it.

If I get it back and it's doing the same thing, I'll demand they take it back again. I am not going to possibly void the warranty or mess up the gun by trying to fix it. I don't believe that a person should buy a brand new gun from a name like Ruger and using the two magazines that came with the gun and high quality name brand ammo experience such issues and have to fix it themselves. This way they can also see their mistake and use the information to hopefully prevent other pistols from leaving the factory with the same problem. It is lack of QC pure and simple. They need to know that it's not okay to cut QC to save money. I'll make sure to give the repair people some job security.

I don't expect anyone to understand but that is the way I feel.
 
Ruger has no warranty. They have a commitment to customer service. Look it up - Page 48 of your new Mark IV manual. As Ruger customers, this works in our favor - and Ruger has always upheld their commitment to unparalleled customer satisfaction.

BUT... I will warn you, you're VERY likely to be disappointed in what Ruger does to "fix" your problem, because you don't really have a problem.

This particular issue is not cutting QC, nor is it a lack thereof - but I can understand how it's easy for a new gun buyer to get emotional, after doing a bunch of research, and after being so excited to get their new pistol home, only to find an issue, no matter how small it might be. All fixed barrel 22LR pistols are prone to that particular issue. What often gets touted as "tolerance stacking" around here ends up causing this itty bitty, insignificant issue, that your particular brain picked out as a problem. Most guys would have never even noticed it. It's a problem, but it's kinda like that scratch on the bumper of a new car - doesn't really effect anything, but you know it's there. No reason to NOT get it fixed, but I also would warn you, when Ruger does a function check with a different bullet and doesn't find any functional issue, you can't really be disappointed when they send it back with no modifications whatsoever. Your statements are the kind of irrational claims we've seen flying around about ANY manufacturer in recent years, simply because the buyer found something wrong with their new toy, then went online and started lambasting the OEM. If Ruger fixes it so it doesn't cause any superficial scraping on the bullet, great. If they don't, it's still a great pistol, and frankly, that issue is likely nothing more than superficial damage to the bullet and won't effect accuracy at all - and if they DO fix it, it probably won't actually shoot any better than it did so far. It might even shoot worse than it does now. My bet - they will function test it and find no issue, so then you'll be upset when it comes back with the same "issue." Note where those 'filings' are falling, there's really nothing to create interference - you could shoot for a decade without cleaning down there and it won't create a jam. You'd have hit your targets or killed the game, and wouldn't have ever had an issue - but you happened to notice it.

Here's another common occurrence, and a similar issue - go buy an AR-15 carbine for $500-700. It'll function just fine, but it might eject forward, and WILL beat the heck out of brass, leaving scratches and gouges everywhere. But it'll function just fine. Is that something wrong with the rifle? Yes. Does it ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE for the shooter? Eh, not really. A guy can spend an hour with a file and some lapping compound and correct those scratches and gouges, or he can get fired up and mail it back to the OEM - where they won't do anything because nothing is broken or out of spec - and get even more fired up when it comes back with no change.

Given a non-stepped bullet, or a different ogive shape (different bullet weight), or a non-copper washed bullet, you likely never would have EVER noticed a difference.

It's an easy fix, but it's also a minimal problem. It's a scratch on the bumper of a new car. There are volumes of info online about how to OPTIMIZE the Mark Series pistols for enhanced performance, none of which Ruger really needs to do, nor are they wrong for NOT doing them. But all of these little tweaks do make the pistol run better, smoother, longer, easier, and more accurate. Owners should be willing to make some of those modifications on their own.

BTW - you WILL need to polish your feed ramp, on any pistol, every few thousand rounds. You'll also need to replace your recoil spring, somewhere around 3,000-10,000rnds depending upon the pistol model, as part of PM.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top