Shipping ammo internationally from the US - is this legal?

[Oro]

I have been searching high and low for an answer to this - both the archives here, at cartridge collectors forums, etc. I combed through all the BATF FAQ's. No luck.

Is it possible to ship via contract carrier like UPS, FedEx, or DHL, a box of 50 live centerfire rounds abroad? I know the USPS is out as they don't handle ammo, period. Let's ASSUME for now that the destination country has no problem with it. Is there some part of the USC that bans a private individual from shipping a few handgun rounds overseas?

I ask this as I have a box (50) of vintage military handgun ammunition a collector overseas wants to buy. I can find no rule saying I can't, but I can't find any passage that discusses this, either. I do notice Midway, Natchez, etc. do not ship overseas; so I imagine there must be a rule somewhere. I would just like to find it so I know.

 

[everallm]

Too many unstated variables particularly as you appear to be ignoring the laws in country X

Is the ammunition to be shipped "live" or rendered inert
Is it legal in country X to have ammunition, live or inert shipped to there
Is it legal for the end user to own ammunition, live or inert in country X
Are there specific customs requirements for ammunition importation in country X
Does the ammunition fall under any US State department restrictions on exporting military materiel

Folks need detail before they can assist

 

[joe817]

U.S. Customs would prohibit you from exporting any rounds of ammunition or arms out of the country, unless you go through a whole series of paperwork to do so.

Ammunition is considered hazardous material for one thing. Another and more important thing is that unless you have an export license issue by the Department of Commerce, Department of State, Department of Defense, or BATFE(I believe), you are in violation of ITAR(International Treaty in Arms Regulation), ie: a federal offense. Without proper licensure, the feds look at it like smuggling arms.

I'd suggest you contact someone with U.S. Customs to find out more details. Or Fed-EX for that matter as well.

Before I retired, I was export manager for a multi-national 3rd party international export agency. If anyone called me and asked them if I'd ship something like that for them to country X, I'd tell them no I can't. The headaches that go along with doing something like that just isn't worth it.

 

[Oro]

Too many unstated variables particularly as you appear to be ignoring the laws in country X

All of your questions are answered in the question - live ammo, and no concerns about destination countries rules. Only US laws I am interested in, as clearly stated.

If anyone called me and asked them if I'd ship something like that for them to country X, I'd tell them no I can't.

Right, that seems to be the general attitude. What I am asking is if anyone KNOWS what the laws are, or where to find them. As I mentioned, I spent about an hour searching federal sources as well as commercial shipping sources, both specific to ammunition and others on hazardous materials. I found nothing stating it was banned, but I suspect there is. I am looking for actual information and sources.

 

[joe817]

Oro, I've already answered where you can find the answers you seek.....

U.S. Customs Service, and Fed-EX. Your most reliable source you'll find.

When calling either, ask for export department. Someone can give you the definitive answer you are looking for.

 

[everallm]

Oro

Unless this is just a thought experiment then I'm afraid your assumption that it would be legal in country X is completely valueless.

It's not even valid in the US where, for example, for IL or NJ residents it is illegal to send ammunition (generally handgun caliber) to a resident unless they posses an FOID/FID card.

The laws vary wildly from country to country and what MAY be legal in Canada is different to the UK, is different to individual countries in the EU etc.

Assumptions that it is legal is likely to get the far end individual a knock on the door from his local PD/customs and the same for you from the a wide variety of the alphabet soup brigade.

If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.

 

[Archie]

In general

Permanently exporting firearms and or ammunition requires a DSP-5 from the Department of State.

The website for the U. S. State Department is www.state.gov. Search the website for 'export license' and you'll get the laws and regulations appropriate. I believe there are also some phone numbers listed for questions.

It is both legal and possible, but there is a bit of red tape involved.

 

[TexasRifleman]

You come under ITAR in most cases, requiring special licenses, taxes, etc.

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar_official.html

 

[Oro]

If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.

Everallm, respectfully, if you don't like the question, don't give an answer. I am asking what a priori US laws exist regarding the export of small amounts of small arms ammunition. It has NOTHING to do with foreign regulations. The other posters seem to grasp this...

You come under ITAR

Thank you TexasRifleman, Joe817, and Archie. That is what I needed to find, the 2008 ITAR law. I had been checking Customs liek Joe suggested, but they had no idea - they seem really focused on border patrol activity and stopping importation, not knowledgeable about exportation. That link from the last post got me what I needed and now I see how it is done legally. Thank you guys.

 

[DavesSports.com]

Oro, have you found an answer to your questions yet? We do import and export of firearms and ammo, and have to be registered with the U.S. Dept of State and Dept. of Commerce to do so. Typically, a person would need to be registered as an exporter (which costs between $2750 and $100k+ per year depending on volume exported), or use the services of a registered exporter such as us. The ITAR is found in 22 CFR 120-130. 123.17(e) allows for unlicensed export of ammunition (less than 1,000 cartridges) only if it is for personal use, and ownership will not be transferred.

22 CFR 123.17(e): "Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit U.S. persons to export without a license ammunition for nonautomatic firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section if the quantity does not exceed 1,000 cartridges (or rounds) in any shipment. The ammunition must also be for personal use and not for resale or other transfer of ownership."​

Hope this helps - and if you're interested in the services we offer you can check out our website, www.DavesSports.com, or link directly to our Firearm and Ammunition Import and Export Services. To be very frank, for something of that small of a quantity, it's probably not going to be worth the fee you'll have to pay any registered exporter (and ours are some of the lowest), unless the ammo has special value to the foreign customer.

Hope that helps, and best wishes on your endeavor. Regards,

Joel VanderHoek
Import/Export Specialist
Business Development Manager
VanderHoek Sports, Inc. dba:
Dave's Sports Shop
1738 Front Street
Lynden, WA 98264
(360) 354-5591
www.davessports.com
[email protected]

 

[Oro]

Joel,

Thanks for the post. I had found the relevant laws just as your site points to. however, it's good to know someone does firearms import/export with Canada as it comes up periodically. Next time I'm in Lynden I'll stop and see you all.