Shooting Down an Anti

[telecaster1981]

Hey Guys,

Just got done checking out some stuff on Youtube and ran across this guy who calls himself ElGranChingon. He made a bunch of inflamatory (at least to me) comments regarding 2A and gun owners in general so I fired back! Only problem is, I'm not sure my comments 'stuck' on the Youtube site! Well, here it is for your amusement anyway!


ElGranChingon wrote:

LOVE your website btw. "Right to bear arms is a HUMAN RIGHT"?! HA HA HA! Wow, you are a CRAZY PERSON, aren't you? I just hope I don't read about you on the CNN site soon after you shoot up your family because you were trying to 'protect them from the government.'

and,

Fight fire with fire. You Black Helicopter types begin and end with insults and demonstrate you haven't the slightest interest in facts, so I'll call you what you are--moronic backwoods survivalist nutjobs.

and,

Hey, did you know that they found out the Earth isn't flat? Well, same basic process of reason (that's what we modern types call it, you've probably never heard of it back home in the cave) has told us (hang on to your Daniel Boone hat) that no handguns means LOTS fewer innocent people get shot in the face by criminals, the accident prone, or 'respectable citizens' who crack and take out their co-workers.

and finally,

These statistics are well known by anyone who has bothered to consult the relevant research. Look at Kristin Goss's _Disarmed_. If you know how to read, that is, you pathetic Timothy McVeyites.

So I wrote:

Absolutely brilliant commentary Chingon! Your eloquence in speech and grasp of the situation at hand are stellar, to say the least!

Any human being with a shred of intelligence knows that statistics are never skewed to present misleading information to a naive public. Politicians or those affiliated with radical social movements would never play upon the fears of an emotionally vulnerable populace in order to advance their own agendas!

Moreover, guns must be the root of all problems in society today. Before guns came along in the 14th Century, there was never a problem with murder, theft or other forms of violence. People lived in a harmonious Eden, free from the tempestuous life that plagues modern society. Those stresses come from one source: guns!

Similarly, every place where gun bans have been enacted is now restored to Utopian grandeur! The residents of Washington D.C., New York City, and Chicago (among others) bask in the radiance of a crime-free, perfect environment! Criminals who once ran rampant in these now crime-free cities have been forced to flee and find other areas of refuge. As a result, rural Iowa, along with similar locales, has been reduced to a hell-on-earth in which the minions of the Devil himself rape and pillage the countryside.

Any firearm owner who has a mistrust of the government is, without question, a terrorist! How could any self-respecting American have anything but sincere infatuation with our governing body? After all, no American administration has ever led the people astray! Politicians are known for being honest, straightforward human beings who do not have a self-serving bone in their bodies! It is totally un-American to question those in power, as America has no history whatsoever of independent thinking.

The founders of the United States of America were indeed uncultured, Daniel Boone-hat wearing, ruthless barbarians who thought the Earth was, in fact, flat. With no moral code as a guide, they set up the most despicable form of government to ever be seen throughout the world. Gradually, with guidance by progressive thinkers such as Karl Marx and Federick Engels, a select few American politicians enlightened our reptilian country. Now that we know freeloading is to be lauded and religion of any sort is of no value, we can begin to work on the last remaining problem in the Western world...again: Guns!

As Americans, we need to look to Europe as a model. Historically, gun control on the other side of the Atlantic has been hugely successful! Hitler had nothing but the best intentions for those poor Jews he disarmed...why couldn't they see the big picture? Stalin was a visionary as well! The Soviet people had the foresight to support the greater good and leaving for the Goulag was the least they could do for their country. Even outside of Europe, the global community has seen the benefits of gun control in places like Guatemala, Cambodia, Rwanda, Turkey, and Uganda to name but a few.

I've come to a horrible realization in examining your indisputable facts, Chingon: I've been so very wrong all my life. It has eluded me up till today how wrong it is for me to own guns. I'm proud to say, I'm a changed man and plan to forfeit my firearms to the most honorable Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives as soon as possible. First thing tomorrow, I'm going to restore any power I once had to where it belongs: the Federal Government. I'll feel much more secure in knowing that Big Brother is looking out for me...protecting my interests...providing food and shelter and guarding me against those vile individuals who have not yet given up their guns! I am so relieved! Autonomy is such a burden!

Thank you ElGranChingon for making me more aware and helping the world to be a better place!

Sincerely,


Ben Van Dyke

 

[Titan6]

Oh, (whew!) I thought Oleg's cultural war had started for real...

 

[longeyes]

When you encounter a guy whose screen name is El Gran Chingon you might realize you are most likely talking to Onan the Barbarian. Why waste your breath?

 

[ZeSpectre]

My classic response here is... don't feed the trolls. When someone is that far off the radar all they are looking for is attention and shock value and the best answer you can give them is the sound of crickets chirping.

 

[telecaster1981]

I don't really have a good reason for spouting off and wasting my breath other than I have it to waste. Just wanted to make him look/feel foolish...not that he needs any help! I just like to see what kinds of responses these types of people throw around and also to see what kinds of responses I've got. I don't often put my feelings into words on many issues so it's good to stretch out every once in a while, especially when it involves sarcasm!

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Founders?

Wait . . .

Karl Marx didn't discover America?

But in school I learned . . .

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Just wanted to make him look/feel foolish...

I don't think he will feel foolish being as he already "knows" you to be a 2A idiot and as such won't give your comments any consideration. He knows you are wrong just as you know he is wrong because he is an anti idiot. You might as well be arguing religion with him and how your religion is the true religion and his is not. Winner? No one.

Good call on noting how statistics are skewed to convey a point. So you shot down his stats and shot down pro-gun stat presentations as well. Winner? No one.

they set up the most despicable form of government to ever be seen throughout the world.

Well, there are a lot of folks in the world to hate Americans. It wasn't initially despised as it is today, but it has grown in that direction. Winner? No one.

The important thing is that you did feed a troll and didn't come across any better as Mr. Wizard than he did and as a result, didn't exactly set a glowing example for being a righteous gun owner. You played HIS game, not yours. Winner? No one.

The guy looked like an idiot on his own and had you left him alone then 2A folks would have been better off.

 

[1911austin]

I know how you feel after reading his crap. But, we should spend time talking to our "leaders" not some freak in the internet. Just remember.......

 

[skinnyguy]

Arguing with an "anti" is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You get tired and dirty, and eventually, you discover the pig likes it.

You did make some EXCELLENT points however, it's just too bad that this guy doesn't realize he's too close to the trees to see the forest.

 

[benelli12]

Beautiful use of sarcasm, at one point I swear I could taste the sarcasm bleeding from your response......

But seriously, you made some good points, If he replies, please post his response.

 

[Sindawe]

This thread is useless without a link.

I read El Gran Whatever's comments the other day, I don't recall the video off hand.

 

[telecaster1981]

Well,

I kind of see some of your points and probably agree that it was a pointless conversation. Almost seems like some of you guys want to make me feel foolish for feeling the need to opine...which I'm not sure I understand at all?

Where to start...

The important thing is that you did feed a troll and didn't come across any better as Mr. Wizard than he did and as a result, didn't exactly set a glowing example for being a righteous gun owner.

Because righteous gun owners avoid debate? I'll be sure to roll over and play dead when it comes to gun-rights debates of any sort from now on.

You played HIS game, not yours.

I did? I thought his game was blatant mud-slinging, name-calling, wildly trying to make points that have no basis in reality...

1911austin:

I got a chuckle out of your 'special olympics' analogy and see your point to a certain extent, but at the same time I'm not sure I see a huge difference between an argument/debate that's online and an argument/debate with someone in the flesh. Isn't it important to be able to verbally spar? Would the situation be different if a prominent 2A rights activist were engaged in, say, a televised debate with Diane Feinstein, Sarah Brady, or (you fill in the blank)? The 2A activist stands little chance of changing the minds of the Anti-2As, but he at least has a chance to make his point to the audience who may be undecided.

I'm going to let you all in on something here. You may already have found this out in your own experiences, but I'll share mine.

I was a music major in college. A gun-owning, conservative, religious music major. I couldn't have been more out of place. I felt like I had been dropped behind enemy lines and left for dead! On several occasions at social gatherings, a group of these liberals would get together and bring my beliefs into question. By nature, I'm pretty non-confrontational and I'd usually skirt the issues because I knew they were just looking for an argument, but at the same time it really irked me because I knew they were getting off on the fact they could back me into a corner. I finally got tired of it and started countering everything they had to offer with something better and, you know what, they left me alone and ended up respecting me more for it. Like it or not, most liberals have come to expect most conservatives to not stand up for themselves in an argument. Watch them on TV...they run their mouths off stating 'fact' after bogus 'fact' with impunity because a lot of the guys they're arguing with aren't used to staging a verbal counter attack. Conservatives and liberals approach arguments as differently as men and women, respectively. Most of you know what I'm talking about...lots of women pick fights because they know they can get away with it...most women are better at verbal confrontations than men (big generalizations, I know, but if you've been married, you know what I'm talking about). It's not because men are stupid (I hope) or because men can't argue...just most of the time they choose to avoid it. But you know what catches them off guard? Stand your ground every once in a while. You don't have to 'win'...you just have to show them you're up to the challenge and they'll probably leave you alone.

I might be a 'retard' for running in that race but keeping to ourselves and not being heard doesn't really help us much either. Look at a history book regarding the 1960's...you'd think that the hippies represented the sentiments of the majority of Americans, but that wasn't the case at all...they just made the most noise! We have to make some noise too, folks! Make intelligent noise, but for God's sake, be heard! There are a bunch of far-left-wingers out there that proclaim to be the voice of America's majority (which they're not) and they gain followers who may be on the fence...nobody wants to be a minority, right?

I'll pick my fights more carefully from now on, but I want to know that I at least have some arguments in order when the time comes. Most of you are older and more experienced at various forms of debate, so forgive me for cutting my teeth online! Maybe I could have represented us better...just make sure YOU are representing us in some way as well (to someone other than ourselves).

Ben

 

[Wesker]

Coming from a guy who calls himself El Grand Chingon (The great fuc*er, is how it translates) I wouldn't put too much stock in anything an idiot like that has to say.

Also, it doesn't take much to shoot down any anti, whether they're semi-intelligent or blithering idiots. We have infallible and undeniable logic and proof through trial on our side, they only support and regurgitate nightmare scenarios and theorycraft.

 

[pacodelahoya]

well, I thought it was quite funny.

 

[skinnyguy]

Telecaster, I hope you don't think that what I was telling you was a bad thing, it's NOT. Not by any stretch of the imagination. I was just saying that when someone with a closed mind has that mind made up, there is no way to change what they think. Anybody with an open mind and a strong opinion can be taught, and the opinion can change.

I know. Though not gun related, I had a strong opinion of my own change, because I am not afraid to learn, process information, and decide for myself, and not let somebody else make up my mind for me.

Just from what you posted of what El Grande Idiota had to say, he is either so blind, he will never see the truth, or so closed minded, that he will never accept it, or (and this is most likely) he doesn't believe a damn thing and just wants to piss somebody off.

I meant no offense to you, if you did take offense, I apologize, profusely.

 

[kcmarine]

Luckily for us, there's a good chance this guy won't reproduce and then spread his idiocy. A guy named El Gran Chingon probably couldn't get laid gettin' of a plane in Hawaii. Sounds like a nerd who needs to quit wasting his life on WoW. Sorry for the name calling and personal attacks, but hey, no one around here claims to be politically correct .

 

[ajax]

Even if Double Naught Spy has something against your comments I personally liked them very much. Where you sound educated El whats his name doesn't.

 

[telecaster1981]

Thanks for some kind words guys! I was starting to feel like I was all alone there for a few minutes and/or just as misguided as ElChingon! Glad to see someone got some entertainment value out of it.

 

[mike101]

Good Job

Yeah, it's probably a waste of time, but you have to argue with these people sometimes, or your head will explode.

These antis sure are a nasty bunch, aren't they? They're pretty bad on The Huffington Post, too. There, the favorite tactic is to question our manhood. All guns are phallic symbols, we are all under-endowed, etc.

The only polite antis seem to be the Brady Bunch. They still lie through their teeth, but at least they lie politely.

You might suggest that instead of getting his stats from "Disarmed", he try the Dept. of Justice. That often shuts them up, temporarily. :banghead:

 

[FieroCDSP]

I thought it was great. Waste of breath on the guy, maybe. BUt at least you've stretched your creative legs and feel a bit better, I can relate. Sometimes you just need to have an outlet, and even if you spouted something completely off the wall (and didn't post it here), is anyone going to believe that guy?

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Smack 'em down

"Never let an attack go unanswered."

Cede no ground.

He gets up, knock him down again.

Eventually he'll cross the street to avoid you.

The socialist left has become accustomed to having no response to their hysteria.

The hysteria is deliberate. It's the three-year-old tantrum in the grocery store: he knows you're not going to confront him there.

This gives them "dibs" (unless you refute what I claim, then my claim is true).

Don't "fence" with them. Use a brick.

Call them what they are; use an accurate label. Any dishonest, anti-rights, pro-tyranny, uber-controlling hack gets all the respect he has earned.

It's time to call them out.

You wanna piece of me?!

I got yer argument right here!​

Don't assume "misunderstanding" or "innocent ignorance."

When some arrogant buffoon picks up some mud to sling, make sure your mudball has a large rock in it.

There really are some innocently ignorant people out there. They won't engage in gratuitous attacks.

The guy with the pit-bull-mouth and the chihuahua brain needs to have his chain yanked hard enough to disuade him from further barking.

Stand your ground. Keep your cool. Deal in facts. Label the lies and the liars.

Make fear work for you, not for them.

 

[Beatnik]

A gun-owning, conservative, religious music major.

....There are an awful lot of church organs that need people to play them, so I don't think it's a mathematical impossibility.

I think it did a lot of good. No, you're never going to convince him. But OTOH you may convince other people reading it - or at least bring the issues to their attention.

Where do those ideas come from? Ideas about disarmament leading to gulags, ideas about gun control leading to nightmare cities? You sure as hell don't hear about them on the news. I started hearing these ideas through the first generation of conservative broadcasters, like Rush and G. Gordon Liddy.

Well, this is the same idea. No, we're not as eloquent as those guys, but other people are reading the stuff we write - they're just running into it, they're not having to tune in to a particular show. I think that's great. We're getting competing ideas out there, whether we win or not.

 

[1911austin]

telecaster1981,


I was not calling you a retard for arguing online. I was just pointing out that arguing with some anonymous idiot online is kind of pointless. What is the point of an intelligent person, like you, debating with some foul mouth lunatic? For all we know he is some pimple faced twelve year kid trying to play an adult online. I think our time would be better spent letting our government officials at all levels know that voting for any gun control will cost them their jobs.

 

[telecaster1981]

No offense taken, 1911austin! I understand what you're saying, for sure.
My condition is that I'm usually participating in some sort of activity such that my time could be better spent elsewhere, so my commentary was par for the course for me. Just having a little fun and blowing off a little steam. Maybe I'll write my elected officials next time and see if they appreciate my sarcasm...ha! Maybe not...yet...

Ben

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Well worded response for several possible conversational situations. Sometimes sarcasm is pithier than simple statement.

May I have permission to take notes for future use?