Shooting for best groups possible questions

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Prion

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Hi, another question for y'all.

I have a rifle in .308 that is guaranteed moa or less and a bunch of match ammo from various manufacturers in a variety of weights. I have never tried to shoot moa groups before. Could you describe your procedure when shooting groups with a new rifle? How many fouling shots out of a clean barrel, how much time between shots, what are you shooting off, bags or bipod, prone or bench, etc. I'll eventually settle on my own system but some general ideas and suggestions or just a quick description of how you would approach a new, accurate, rifle, a bunch of match ammo, and a summer to shoot it. Thanks guys! :D
 
With a stock SPS-V 700 in .308 from Remington I don't have to do anything special, I just aim, hold my breath, and sqeeze the trigger, and I was shooting of a mound of dirt, mud, and sticks, nothing special there either, I suspect the same with anything in prone.
 
Could you describe your procedure when shooting groups with a new rifle? How many fouling shots out of a clean barrel, how much time between shots, what are you shooting off, bags or bipod, prone or bench, etc.

I usually shoot groups to find the accuracy of my gun prone or benchrest, bipod, and rear bags.

I take as much time between shots as i need to slow down my movement, without starting to shake. Find your natrual point of aim, release all your breath, and fire. Repeat. Remember proper trigger control and sight alignment. Or, in the case of optics, focus on the crosshairs, not the target.
 
a good way to find out what your gun can do is to put it on a bench rest that holds it perfectly still. Even then if you put crappy glass on it you wont get the groups you could with great glass. Lastly, some people do a break in process to make their barrels get better accuracy. I don't and I haven't needed it to get sub 1" at 200 yards with a couple of my rifles. Other rifles wont get that at 100 yards for me. For me it depends on my loads, trigger, and scope. I have seen old mausers with black pitted bores shoot sub moa with nice scopes and ammo.
 
Some guys use a vise. I shoot my guns like i'd shoot them if i wasn't at the range. If its long distance delivery; prone, with bipod or sandbag, I think it wouldn't hurt to try a couple groups each way, and see what you like better. Benchrest maybe, but i've never seen an elk or deer, etc, while comfortably seated. If its a tac/closer-in gun, standing with sling or vert front grip or whatever.

I generally draw a small dot with a sharpy (1/4" dia. or so at 100) which is *just* enough to see at your shooting distance, and aim for it, and gently sqeeze the trigger.

I would not hold my breath. I shoot during a long, steady exhale. With your finger on the same place on the trigger each time.

As for time between shots, the longer the better. If its a hunting gun, or HD or whatever, when you need it the barrel will be cold; so why not train that way?

As for fouling, i'd run copper-remover down the bore every shot for the first 20 or so, and then maybe every 5th shot after that on the first day, to break in the barrel - the important thing here is not to have a kernel of smudge down there that gets pressed into the side of the barrel on your next shot, permanently making a little divot. As more shots go through, the heat from each will contribute to the bore's surface hardness; or so i hear.

If you're new to shooting in general, i'd recommend finding someone who is qualified and properly knows, and get them to teach you some pointers. (IE not the guy wearing the WW3 gear with all the crap on his quadrail wearing cammies.) If you go to a reputable range, they should be able to point you in the right direction of a knowledgeable professional.

Good luck, and remember that precision rifle shooting is a product of practice and repetition.
 
Tips on shooting" The Ways of the Rifle

If you are really serious, buy a copy and read this. It is actually about 3-position shooting, not bench shooting, but there is an absolute wealth of info here for anyone who pulls a trigger on a rifle. Want to know about breathing? Body position? Sight pictures? Best $60 bucks you will spend on the sport of rifle shooting, IMHO.

http://www.championshooters.com/store/product.php?productid=71
 
ARLover, working up loads or figuring out which commercial ammunition your rifle likes best is an important step but realize that there are two systems at play. First, what is the rifle capable of and second, what are you capable of? If you can remove yourself as much as possible from the first measurement (bench, sand bags front and rear etc) you'll know what your rifle is capable of. Don't underestimate the psychological importance of this. Once you have that figured out, you can then work on the second issue which is you. Shooting small groups is one thing, shooting small groups in the center of the target is another issue all together. I've seen/met many shooters that shoot small groups but the group isn't in the X-ring. Why is that?

It's more important to put your shots where you want them rather than getting small groups where you don't, but that's a whole new thread.

Personally, I work up loads following the OCW method of shooting anywhere from 5 to 8 different loads (five rounds of each) in a round-robin system i.e. one shot from each load on separate targets. Then I fire a second shot from each load at each of the targets and so on until all loads have been shot. This approach helps to remove some of the shooter fatigue, changing environmental conditions and changing rifle conditions from the data. As for fouling shots, I shoot a group of five rounds at the start of the session. I generally choose a load that I think is a good one to see what happens as the barrel heats up and fouls. It helps if you record the position of each shot so that you can track the changes. I also will tend to shoot the same loads over a few weekends to get a better average performance of each load. A chronograph can help too since low ES and SD numbers often coincide with small groups. I have a log sheet and record the position of each hit on each target as I shoot. If you feel that you flinched, pulled the trigger at the wrong time, the wind suddenly picked up, the shot didn't feel right (more/less recoil) etc. record that information since it'll help you to interpret the results.

The time between shots will depend on the caliber, velocity, the type of barrel (dimensions), weather etc. If the barrel is just somewhat warm then I shoot. I don't wait for it to be stone cold. If the barrel is hot, a chambered round can heat up enough to raise the internal pressure and therefore increase the velocity. This shouldn't be a big issue at a range shooting one round every three to five minutes, but in a match shooting one round every 5 seconds or even one round every minute, this can affect velocity.

As for shooting techniques, consistency is the name of the game. Whatever system you choose, stick to it and don't keep second guessing yourself ... that will just lead to frustration. I breath out slowly and time my trigger pull to the period when almost all of the air has been expelled from my lungs. Put your fingers to your jugular and feel your pulse as you breath in/out/pause etc. You'll find a "window" where your pulse slows and that's a good time to be pulling the trigger.

Good luck and practice is EVERYTHING!!!

:)
 
Thanks 1858, exactly what I was looking for. I do shoot quite a bit I just have never taken a systematic approach to shooting small groups with an accurate rifle and match ammo. This is a new aspect of shooting for me, I'm not new to shooting myself.
 
Shoot from the best stable platform possible, to eliminate anything that causes YOU to mess up. I shoot my best groups from a prone, with a bag or bipod front support, a rear bag support, and take a LOT of time with breathing and timing your shots. I time my shots at the end of my exhale, and between heartbeats. I guess you could put it in a vise, but that's not really you shooting your gun in my opinion. Initial set up is important with your natural point of aim, and positioning behind the rifle. As far as time between shots, only really matters if your barrel gets too hot. Personally, my eye gets tired before my barrel does, at least with my bolt guns. Cleaning frequency is more of a personal choice in my opinion, and some of my guns shoot tighter with fouled barrel, one that has some rounds through it. Just sometimes depends on the gun. My DPMS 308 is that way. My Rem 700 .308 likes a cleaner barrel. I haven't figured it out yet!
 
I've done a lot of load testing and sighting in through the years. Two factors seem to be the most important, among all the comments of "How to..."

First off is setting up sandbags so the rifle is very steady with no human assistance, and the sights are very close to being right on target. Consistency of placement of the forearm on its sandbag is of course a necessity.

Then, consistency of sight picture from shot to shot. As close to being perfectly the same as every other shot.
 
Thanks Art and everyone for the tips. I'm looking forward to exploring this aspect of shooting. If I can get my OCD to fixate on this aspect of shooting I think I'll enjoy it very much.
 
First off is setting up sandbags so the rifle is very steady with no human assistance, and the sights are very close to being right on target.

My bold.

A common mistake for shooters with sand bags. The rifle will be pointing 2" right off center, and they "smush" it over to line up. Then the next shot it might be 1" low off center before they "smush" it up, etc, etc.
 
Use target with a 1" square bullseye. Aim for one of the corners. This will let you line up the horizontal and vertical crosshairs with the edge of the black bull. This will force you to hold on the exact same spot for every shot.
 
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