Shooting makeshift brick wall (video)

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Daniel

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I wanted to see if a makeshift double layer of brick wall could stop 12 gauge 00 buckshot at close range; in previous testing one layer wasn't enough to stop lead fragments and the occasional pellet from penetrating the bottle (they didn't exit the 10 liter bottle). I video them for my own viewing, but I thought I may as well share it.

Weapon: 20" 12 gauge coach gun; first shot is modified choke, second is improved cylinder (you can see where one pellet hit higher with the second shot)
Range: 3 to 4 meters
Load: Winchester 2-3/4" high velocity 1-1/8 ounces 9 pellet OO buckshot (1350 feet per second)
Effect: you'd be safe on the other side of the wall from two shots on the same brick

When I go to the gun shop next I'll get some slugs, but I could try out other ammo if anyone is interested (the joys of living in the middle of nowhere).
 
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I am so glad you're still alive to post this.

Ever hear of ricochets?

Shooting 00 at a hard surface from 16 feet is a good way to make the Darwin Awards.

DO NOT TRY THIS AGAIN,PLEASE!!!
 
Nah, it's safe.

Soft lead plus brick doesn't equate to bounce backs.

I wouldn't do it with jacketed low velocity projectiles (say, a .38 Special TMJ), but even then, the brick would still crumple/crumble. I just wouldn't risk it on brick in case a TMJ round came around in the air space.

The only thing I've found that's "unsafe" is shooting .22LR Shorts at targets against hardwood trees; the rounds come back, though not at a dangerous velocity.

Metal plates that people commonly use aren't all that "safe", as they don't crumple/crumble (they send bullets in all directions).
 
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A friend and I did some testing years ago against a mostly intact brick wall that was part of an partially destroyed old house, I found that buckshot did a lot of shallow surface damage but didn't penetrate or knock bricks out of place.

The bricks appeared old and seemed denser and harder than what's being used now however. I'm not a brick expert but I've done some masonry work in the past.

Anyway we found that no buckshot pellet managed to get more than about 10 feet away from the impact point, they were all reduced to almost unrecognizable scraps of brick dusted lead and from what I could see the furthest landing ones only managed to get that far by tumbling along the ground and and not by bouncing back directly.
 
I have to agree with Dave, you're lucky that you didn't catch a ricochet. Just because it hasn't happened yet... it still could happen. I've seen what it looks like, friend did about the same thing you did and got hit in the gut.

He was in the fetal position for awhile before he could get up, when he did he was lucky that all he got was a baseball sized bruise! After we got done laughing at him I told him he was lucky that the bruise was all he got and that we wouldn't have taken him to the hospital until we were done shooting.:D
 
I'm guessing some of yousa guys haven't done competition shooting with pistols/shotguns where steel targets and plates are the norm? Bounce backs happen a lot, and they're no big deal (you shoot targets that are close often and have no "give").

As long as the projectile "breaks" what it hits, and the projectile in question is soft lead (buckshot), you'll never get a bounce back.

I can guarantee if you took a sledge hammer to these bricks, you'll be in far more danger of injury.

Youngster,

That's interesting. I'm betting the cement added additional tensile strength to the bricks so they in turn offered better resistance to penetration, which would mean you would get more pellets coming back (but as you noted, nothing serious). Whereas when the bricks are loose, they can be pushed around by the shot.

Hornet 6,

No way with the .22LR. I've caught bounce backs from using old trees as backstops with .22LR Shorts, so I don't use .22LR for anything "hard" (regular .22LR dug into the trees).

Testing with slugs will be done soon. ;)
 
That's interesting. I'm betting the cement added additional tensile strength to the bricks so they in turn offered better resistance to penetration, which would mean you would get more pellets coming back (but as you noted, nothing serious). Whereas when the bricks are loose, they can be pushed around by the shot.

Tougher bricks, proper mortar and weight as well, since there was at least a couple of feet worth of wall pressing down above the point where we were hitting.
 
rondog,

Any reason why?

I mean, all pellets were accounted for, the projectiles had adequate velocity and force to insure that there was no ricochet and they deformed upon impact, and the bricks were loose to provide even more safety. When it comes to firearms safety, I'm as serious as they come. Yes, I know the saying, never shoot at a hard surface, but for the most part, that's to prevent ricochets outbound, i.e., a flat surface, so you don't endanger other people. I've shot a heap of bricks before with 00 buckshot and I've never once had anything remotely come back at me, not even a piece of brick.

Youngster,

Yep, that'd do it. They made it through one layer of loose brick in my testing, but the brick just blew up as it wasn't held together by the force of a properly constructed wall. Still, you probably wouldn't receive a lethal wound on the other side going by what was in the bottle.
 
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Actually, Daniel, there's a few hundred steel plates on my backtrail, and most were constructed so as to lie down when hit. That reduces the chance of ricochets to nigh zero.

I have gotten sprinkled with 6 shot from a wooden box used as a target. No damage, but I was glad I had eye protection on. And I've been more careful about targets since then.

My Hillbilly/PA Dutch ancestors believed in The Fool Killer. This was an Angel of Death whose sole job it was to gather up the souls of those who did unspeakably dumb stuff. When someone survived despite his/her actions, they said the Fool Killer must have been busy elsewhere.
 
Whilst I won't post the video (I don't want to set a bad example now), I finished up some tests after buying some ammo; I'll post the results for those interested.

Same layout, with two layers of loose brick supported by other bricks, with a 10 liter water bottle filled behind it

Loads and range fired:
SSG buckshot; 4 meters
00 buckshot; 4 meters and 20 meters
1 ounce Foster slug at 1600 FPS; 10 meters
.223 Rem F1/SS109; 20 meters
.22 Mag 40 grain FMJ at 1900 FPS; 20 meters
Guns:
20" 12 gauge coach gun
CZ .223 527 600mm barrel Bolt-action
CZ .22 Mag 452 527mm barrel Bolt-action
Effects (written form):

SSG buckshot at 00 buckshot did pretty much the same thing at 4 meters; pulverize half of a brick with little effect on the one behind it (no dimples from pellets); pellets were in the broken up brick

00 buckshot at 20 meters left decent sized holes of about 1 inch deep in the bricks, but that was it (I'm assuming the pellets bounced back (I thought they would), but since I was 20 meters away it was no big deal)

.223 SS109 at 20 meters split a single brick in two, like with the buckshot at 4 meters, but it didn't pulverize it (bullet fragmented). Fairly underwhelming

.22 Mag FMJ at 20 meters split a brick in two and made a decent crack in the brick behind the first with a pockmark at its center (bullet held together)

1 ounce Foster slug at 10 meters (Foster slugs are very soft too).... What bricks? Through the bottle of water and into the backstop.

There it is.
 
Unless you have interior walls made of brick I don't see why this is interesting data. Exterior walls are lined with windows. And the value of innocent bystanders goes up exponentially indoors, at least in my mind.

But wait! I'll save you the time. All the rounds you tested rip right thru drywall. 100% penetration.

Safety... my old man had the bright idea to shoot polycarbonate plates of various thicknesses with various rounds to see if it was suitable for a home defense (hair-brained) idea. He shot it from about 10 feet back. Most rounds went right thru it but a .45 left a smooth dimple in it and flew back about 6" over his head.

Keep your cats and your curiosity well-separated.
 
Makeshift fortifications?

Barring the slug, you're safe behind just two layers of loose brick. .223 FMJ won't make it through, nor will most common defensive pistol rounds based on the 00 buckshot failure (which would approximate 9mmP/.38/.40/.45/.357 for the most part).

Shooting loose brick up close with buckshot is a lot different to .45 (presumably ball). I'd shoot .45 ball at 10 meters to 20 meters on a hard target (probably 20).
 
A couple of very interesting issues, for sure.

Ricochets

Ricochets are some interesting counter-intuitive buggers. You never know what's going to happen until you test it out and even for projectile/target combos demonstrated "safe," it is the 1/1000 exception that bites you.

Steel plates/falling steel targets, for instance, give me the willies. Oh, I love nailing them in a course of fire, but I learned a whole lot this one time I went to a range that had wooden dividers between plate stations. All-lead projectiles looked to be pretty harmless if you kept velocity up. Jacketed projectiles were a whole lot less predictable and I saw jacket bits or entire jackets slung back to embed into the wood partitions a good ways back. This was for falling plates. I suspect plates that rotate on an axis or are rigid would be more dangerous.

I have shot under circumstances where the backstop is a highly or moderately ricochet-prone material. I did this while under cover with the exception of some of my head, shoulders, & arms necessary to send rounds downrange. I also had a k-pot, body armor, and issue go-fasters (glasses). I was also being paid to do so. Given the totality of the circumstances, I was not particularly concerned with ricochets.


Penetration Testing

I think this sort of activity is of value. Knowing how one's chosen SD/HD weapon/ammo combo will perform on materials in one's home or on commonly encountered materials outside the home is helpful in determining which weapon/ammo combo is best for you.

For instance, I am partial to slugs for SD/HD. I like them because they can be placed as a rifle/carbine round, hit like a freight train, are effective at range, and come in a package (my Rem 1100) I point & shoot faster than any rifle/carbine. But, my HD shotgun has all 000-buck in the mag tube because, although my house is brick and my neighborhood's houses are brick, the neighbor on the other sie of my front door has an addition to his house that is vinyl siding. That is their TV room and where they spend their evenings, many times. Any scenario that has goblins coming in the front door has mere vinyl, drywall, and distance as my backstop. A slug would penetrate my neighbors addition, but the distance is great enough that 000-buck would bounce off, most likely.


Daniel:
I think your experiments of value, but I do worry about your safety. I believe you when you write about the ricochet effects and probability. But, collisions between projectiles & materials are devilishly complex physics phenomena and there is a low probability that you are going to eat a ricochet even with something like 00 buck vs brick. That probability exists with each round fired.

I think there are some precautions you can take that are relatively painless that will drive down the probability of injury due to ricochet.

1. Eye protection. Some glasses/goggles with large lenses can protect the bits most vulnerable to injury due to ricochet.

2. Head protection. A k-pot is likely overkill, as is a milsurp steel pot. Though, a steel pot has a "cool" factor in my book. Milsurp steel pots can be had reasonably and can be cocked down to cover your forehead and a good portion of your eye (down to the top of the pupil).

A less cool option is a construction hard hat found at Home Depot or Lowes. As above, adjust so that it covers your forehead & top part of eye.

3. Body protection. No, I don't suggest body armor. I think that a small sheet of plywood, with two legs arranged how you feel best, and a cutout padded to act as a gun rest, would do the trick. The gun rest would aid in shot placement, as an added bonus.

I would also suggest the plywood be placed at an angle, so the effective thickness vs a projectile would be greater. Last, a small (inches) lip orthogonal to the plywood placed below the gun rest to catch any ricochet that wants to ride the plywood up.

Good luck with your testing and stay safe.
 
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