Fat Boy
Member
I have a single barrel, 12 gauge that is a Wards "Hercules" shot gun. I have shot a few rounds of light bird loads through it but wondered how safe shooting this gun really is. Any way to test it or simple checks to ensure soundness.?
Shooting "old" shotguns
- Thread starter Fat Boy
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Tolkachi Robotnik
Member
If it shots fine and cases are normal you are okay.
Break action older shotguns are usually fairly durable. If you have shot some one ounce loads through it, inspect the empties. If they are not stretched at the base you are probably okay. You may be okay for a very long time.
Most of those shotguns were made with vigorous geometry in the forcing cone area. This makes the recoil worse. Do not shoot anything but the shorter shells that fit the shotgun.
When they get loose it is often due to wear on the pin at the front lower part of the receiver. This should have a little lubricant on it so it doesn't wear fast. The shotgun should be closed easily and fully, not slammed shut. The wear on the action is more from opening and slamming shut than firing.
Most of them will still fire once they are a little wiggly horizontally, but the cases will start to stretch and show some headspace issues.
Double guns are a little different issue. You can have headspace in one barrel of a side by side and not the other side. There are different worries with this compared to single barrels. It causes side torsion problems and is likely to make something fail, usually the rail linking up the two barrels and it comes apart. You could shoot the tight side a long time with no problems.
Break action older shotguns are usually fairly durable. If you have shot some one ounce loads through it, inspect the empties. If they are not stretched at the base you are probably okay. You may be okay for a very long time.
Most of those shotguns were made with vigorous geometry in the forcing cone area. This makes the recoil worse. Do not shoot anything but the shorter shells that fit the shotgun.
When they get loose it is often due to wear on the pin at the front lower part of the receiver. This should have a little lubricant on it so it doesn't wear fast. The shotgun should be closed easily and fully, not slammed shut. The wear on the action is more from opening and slamming shut than firing.
Most of them will still fire once they are a little wiggly horizontally, but the cases will start to stretch and show some headspace issues.
Double guns are a little different issue. You can have headspace in one barrel of a side by side and not the other side. There are different worries with this compared to single barrels. It causes side torsion problems and is likely to make something fail, usually the rail linking up the two barrels and it comes apart. You could shoot the tight side a long time with no problems.
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oneounceload
member
First check the chamber length - if it is really old, it might have a shorter chamber then the normal 2-3/4. It should say on the barrel.
Grease on the hinge pin and knuckles to aid in movement (thinly applied).
If the gun is off face - meaning it has lateral movement or any gap between the breech face and the barrel, that needs to be repaired before firing. If it opens by itself after firing, that needs to be repaired before firing
Grease on the hinge pin and knuckles to aid in movement (thinly applied).
If the gun is off face - meaning it has lateral movement or any gap between the breech face and the barrel, that needs to be repaired before firing. If it opens by itself after firing, that needs to be repaired before firing
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
I tend to be cautious about such things, some might say overly so, but if I had to ask myself the question "Is this old shotgun safe to fire," the default answer for me would be "no."
CajunBass
Member
Good advice, but in my experience that last part isn't necessarly true. Older guns, chambered for shorter shells, that I've seen, usually aren't marked in any way. Why would they? The shorter shells were all they had. I've got Parker, Hunter, and Lefever doubles, made prior to 1940 that have no markings on them at all. At least not the way modern guns are marked. They might have manufacturers codes stamped on them but you have to know (or find) the key to the code.
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MCgunner
Member
I have one in 16 gauge, built by Iver Johnson and branded "Hercules" on the frame. It's very tight. I was given this gun when I was 16, about 1968, for goose hunting. I had a gunsmith make an ejector for it so I wouldn't have to dig the round out with a knife. It's a shooter even today, but I don't use it. It's a keepsake.
If your gun is as tight as mine is, not a problem, load it up with high brass, just no steel shot.
If your gun is as tight as mine is, not a problem, load it up with high brass, just no steel shot.
oneounceload
member
Very true CajunBass, but the OP doesn't really say HOW old it is; many did put chamber dimensions, especially when 2-3/4 became more of the norm from the older 2-1/2 and 2-9/16
Deltaboy1984
Member
We need pictures to make an accurate opinion.
AethelstanAegen
Member
My favorite shotgun is a Winchester 1897 made in 1898. It has no markings about chamber length, so you really do have to measure them. I didn't bother, but that's because I've been making my own loads with 2.5" brass shotshells. I would definitely check though before putting in any commercial ammo.
MCgunner
Member
The one thing I know about 'em, got this from the NRA when I wrote them a query back when I was a kid, is that the guns were discontinued in 1947. I don't recall when they STARTED making 'em for Wards, though.
dprice3844444
member
http://www.justanswer.com/firearms/5o51y-value-hercules-montgomery-ward-12-gauge-single-shot.html
Expert: Philip Van Cleave replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for using Just Answer!
The Montgomery Ward Hercules single-shot shotgun is actually a Harrington & Richardson Model 48 Topper. The Topper is chambered in 12, 16, 20, or .410, has a 26 to 32 inch barrel, a case-hardened frame, a top lever break-open action, a rebounding hammer, auto-ejector, three-piece takedown (with a snap on forearm), a pistol-grip walnut stock, and a hard rubber buttplate. They were made from 1943 to 1956. They are not considered to be very collectible.
Blue Book values (what a dealer would offer, a collector might offer more):
Excellent: $115-$150
Very Good: $85-$100
Good: $60-$75
I hope this helps.
Philip
Expert: Philip Van Cleave replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for using Just Answer!
The Montgomery Ward Hercules single-shot shotgun is actually a Harrington & Richardson Model 48 Topper. The Topper is chambered in 12, 16, 20, or .410, has a 26 to 32 inch barrel, a case-hardened frame, a top lever break-open action, a rebounding hammer, auto-ejector, three-piece takedown (with a snap on forearm), a pistol-grip walnut stock, and a hard rubber buttplate. They were made from 1943 to 1956. They are not considered to be very collectible.
Blue Book values (what a dealer would offer, a collector might offer more):
Excellent: $115-$150
Very Good: $85-$100
Good: $60-$75
I hope this helps.
Philip
MCgunner
Member
So the NRA experts were wrong? 
Oh, well.....
One thing I can say, it is different from the H&Rs I've bought in the last 20 years. They have a push button to break the action. The Hercules has a standard lever atop the tang like most break action guns.
Oh, well.....One thing I can say, it is different from the H&Rs I've bought in the last 20 years. They have a push button to break the action. The Hercules has a standard lever atop the tang like most break action guns.
MCgunner
Member
I did a quick google search and believe that Wards had guns built by many companies over the years. So, the NRA may be right on MY shotgun, don't remember what I told 'em about it, but it was an old gun in 1968.
I found posts like this on other boards......
I found posts like this on other boards......
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