Shooting over, but gun still in hand

[Penforhire]

I have a question for the tactically inclined among us. This is tangentially related to the question recently posed in the General forum about rendering aid after the shooting is over. Suppose the guy you just shot is down but still has a weapon in his hand. How should we (non-L.E. people) handle the situation?

I know if his weapon is a knife, and he is laid out on the floor, I am safe at some distance as I cover him with my gun. But say he's holding on to a pistol, or even if it is on the floor but within his reach. There is no "safe distance." Do I seek cover, where I certainly can't render first aid? I'm thinking no way am I approaching him, regardless of his position or apparent health.

 

[CWL]

This is the same question asked all over again, just jumped forums.

What makes you think things are OK? BG still has gun in hand -how safe are you?

Are you qualified to determine if BG is playing possum?

If you are sticking around (ie. at home) keep BG covered until LEOs arrive on scene. Apply additional bullets if BG makes any dangerous move. (Since you are yelling at the BG not to move at all, any physical movement by BG may be construed as a further act of aggression.)

don't do anything stupid like run up and try to kick gun out of hand, -TV SWAT moves. Maybe BG has another gun, maybe BG has one or two knives (I do). When LEOs do this high risk move, they are ALWAYS covered by one or more partners.

 

[sanchezero]

Just toss a thermite charge on the guy and your worries are over.

Plus, once the rain washes away the ashes no one will ever know anything happened.

 

[SKN]

Move to cover...Scan for additional threats...Reload...Summon assistance...Verbalize "Stay down! Don't Move!". You are under no obligation, common law or statutory, to render any aid to an adversary whose attempt at assaulting you with deadly physical force was defeated.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Let me state this again. It is borrowed from somebody's statemetn in one of the gun rags. Do not consider the threat to be neutralized unless the threat's head is separated from the body by a distance of at least 4 feet.

If the suspect still has a weapon in his hand, you can keep him covered with your gun and if he makes an aggressive move, shoot him somemore. Staying put, however, can be very dangerous. He may cap off unaimed rounds that manage to hit you or a loved one via random chance. You might think such an event is unlikely, but bystanders getting unintentionally shot is a definite reality.

Do not approach downed bad guy.

Do not attempt to restrain the downed bad guy.

Do not render aid to downed bad guy. If you used lethal force against him, you did so because he was trying to do or threatening to do severe bodily harm or death to you or another and had the opportunity, intent, and ability. Only idiots would then try to render aid to a person they just shot because that person was a threat to them. If the bad guy survives as a result of the aid provided, count on seeing him again in the future and he won't be there to wish you Merry Christmas. He will never be pleased with you for shooting him.

Do not try to remove weapon from downed bad guy. Primarily, this is a safety issue for you, but also if the guy is incapacitated (such as dead), then the police finding the guy with the weapon in hand will help corroborate your claims of the guy being a threat.

If you have already determined no other threats to be present, use the fact that the downed bad guy isn't moving quickly to seek proper cover (not concealment) and reload as necessary. It may simply be best that you just fully egress from the immediate vicinity of the bad guy. If he is shot and laying in your kitchen, consider egressing to your neighbor's house and your neighbor's house's safety where you call for the cops and then wait for their arrival. They are trained professionals. Let them approach the downed suspect and ascertain the suspect's condition. If the suspect needs medical attention, they will make that assessment and contact the the proper agencies for help.

 

[Penforhire]

Some of you guys are awfully cavalier or juvenile about the status of the BG and what is reasonable to do. Based on some advice I might as well advance on him after he goes down and "zipper" my shots until I exhaust my magazine into his head! Somehow I doubt that would go over well with the responding authorities, and possibly a jury later.

I liked Brownie's intelligent responses to the original thread but that thread did not deal with ascertaining if the BG was still a threat, with a weapon nearby. I'm with Brownie on even though I may be legally entitled to employ lethal force, after certain situation-parameters are met it could help my legal situation to go into damage control mode.

 

[Paul Gomez]

The Wyatt Protocol aka "Move FAST"

Move (prefably offline) while accessing the firearm

Fight (this is where shots are initially fired)

Do I need to fight anymore?

Assess (while gaining distance, if available & appropriate)

Do I need to fight any one else?

Scan (360-degrees)

Am I ready to fight again?

Take cover/Top Off/Talk (to aggressor, to bystanders, to police)

Remember, if you don't survive Problem 1, Problem 2 is not an issue.
If you compromise your safety, by exposing yourself/ leaving cover to attempt to render medical aid to someone who has already attempted to use lethal force against you you are taking unaccceptable risks, in my opinion.

Realize that, in most cases, emergency medical services (at least in my town) will not enter a scene of violence to render aid until law enforcement is onsite and has things under control. EMS & fire will wait down the block for LEO to secure the area.

I learn medical skills to be able to be able to perform self-aid and to assist my friends and family should the need arise.

 

[El Tejon]

Pen, your thinking is correct. Just because one is down, does not mean he is out, whether bare hands, knife or gun.

All kinds of people have been shot, went down and got back into the fight.