Shooting skills, How to get better?

[How you gonna get down that hill]

HAHA...knew it

Take it off....why do folks flinch.....barring medical conditions...bet i know.

"That is the worst advice I've ever seen posted on a gun forum."
Never had to shoot outside of a range huh? Lot of folks don't like it but there is a difference between shooting because you like it and shooting 'cause ya got to.

It's also got to do with conditioning...more than just muscle memory....some folks have actually said, "you don't shoot with your hand"...and it's true got to have your head in the game.

HAHAHA. People do have to fire weapons without hearing pro... hahaha....you will be ok...it will be alright...hahha...you guys kill me sometimes.

wouldn't do it every minute of every day...but like all things in moderation it is necessary.....like stress fire....like night fire.....

Also dude....get a trigger...same one as on your weapon.......put it in your hand in your off moments...let your finger become "aquainted" with the feel of it when you are not shooting and not under any pressure.

 

[Headless]

While i do see some benefit to firing your carry weapon a couple times without protection so you know what to expect (you may be surprised at just how loud a .38spl snub is in a small enclosed space without earplugs.), i don't think it'd be a good idea to go out to the range and practice weekly without any protection in...180db is not your friend. From my experience, the gun is so loud in that case that all you hear is ringing anyway...it's so loud you don't even get a perception of loudness, because your ears just got pummelled beyond their ability to register sound. It's a shockwave, not sound.

I found the opposite to help me in removing my flinch. I had a nasty flinch for a long time when firing my 9mm and 38...i got rid of it by:
1. Dry firing with a quarter balanced on the barrel of my .38. Double action, slow as can be...click...quarter should not move. Focus everything on just making the movement smooth...speed comes with practice.
2. Loading my revolver halfway - leaving 1 or 2 chambers empty, spinning the cylinder randomly then forcing myself to focus exclusively on the front sight. When you get to the cylinders that have no rounds in them, you will consciously feel yourself yank the gun down and see it happen. Stop and look at what you just did. Then try again, considering that you should ONLY be pulling the trigger, and the gun should remain stable and steady.
3. Double up hearing protection. Fire a ton of .22's and get to the point where you see the muzzle flash of your firearm every single time you fire. Move up a caliber, and fire some off and make sure that you can see the muzzle flash every time. If you are not seeing the muzzle flash, you are flinching/blinking.

 

[Jeff White]

How you gonna get down that hill said;

HAHAHA. People do have to fire weapons without hearing pro... hahaha....you will be ok...it will be alright...hahha...you guys kill me sometimes.

This is the last time you will recommend unsafe practices in this forum!

Hearing loss is no joke...It's not a hahaha type issue. I don't know if you're trying to insinuate that you're somehow more of a man if you shoot without hearing protection or what, but it won't fly here.

The fact is, it definately will not be alright. Hearing loss from exposure to gun fire is real and it is cumulative. Every time you discharge a weapon without hearing protection you are damaging your hearing. Add other normal exposures to high intensity noise into the mix and the training method you recommend will certainly lead to measurable hearing loss and tinitus (constant ringing of the ears). There is a 100% chance that this will happen. It's not like you may get cancer if you smoke. It's, you will lose your hearing if you shoot without hearing protection.

With the advent of electronic hearing protection there is very little reason for anyone to shoot without it, even in combat. Why do you think Peltor, Comtac and Sordin can barely keep up with the orders for their electronic hearing protection fitted with com kits?

wouldn't do it every minute of every day...but like all things in moderation it is necessary.....like stress fire....like night fire.....

It is not necessary, ever. No training program that I am aware of has any stage where the trainees shoot without hearing protection. It is not only not necessary, it is unsafe. If you want to continue to post here, you need to forward to me the actual training program that requires this.

I'm waiting for your reply and a look at the training program that says it's necessary......

Jeff

 

[txgho1911]

Thank you Jeff for drawing the line. My tinitus is still minor if I don't think about it. I would vote to allow him to edit for corection.
I'm with Pax and others with agreement on Robert Hairless first post may be the best you can do. I have some class time done and will be seeking more shortly. Will also try to expand on the competitive practice like IDPA and others.
So Pax are you going to append this to your flinch article?

 

[BullfrogKen]

How you gonna get down that hill said: HAHAHA. People do have to fire weapons without hearing pro... hahaha....you will be ok...it will be alright...hahha...you guys kill me sometimes.

Jeff White said: This is the last time you will recommend unsafe practices in this forum!

Well, I do know of one man that has come through our NTI events that declined to wear heaing protection. For nearly anyone else, I would have required that he don some ears, but I know this man, and what he does for a living . . . and he prefers to treat our events as close to reality as he could get. I make the exception for him, but even he still wears eyes.


Yep, we won't have ears on if we ever find ourselves using our gun to protect ourselves. But . . . its not something I recommend anyone do regularly as something we need to devote time training through. And, it is MOST CERTAINLY NOT a technique one should use to cure a flinch. That really is one of the silliest recommendations I've heard to cure this habit.


I'm jumping on the bandwagon and recommend Robert Hairless' admonishment that you stop shooting now. Go learn how to shoot; its not a natural act men are born with the instinct to perform . . . Although quite a few might think otherwise . . . who also probably believe they are just as equally gifted with sexual prowness and car mechanics as well.

Stop ingraining bad habits today. Practice does not make perfect. Practice merely makes permanent.

 

[txgho1911]

Sheriff now Ken Campbell in Boone County In, teaches a basic defensive handgun course for verified legal to own non LEO.
One fact in the non shooting part of the class stands out as something to remember for any training endeavor.
Men are harder to teach and train than women.
The trainable man will shut up and listen and pay attention. Many will end up knowing the drill and running over theme selves through mistakes or hardwired bad habits.
As so many have noted. Stop practicing bad habits.
If you are fortunate you will be able to continue to train by yourself after you learn the bare basics that you do not have. Humble yourself a lil and accept that so you can go learn something well.
Now that reminds me to get on his email list.

 

[Robert Hairless]

How you gonna get down that hill:

Take it off....why do folks flinch.....barring medical conditions...bet i know.

"That is the worst advice I've ever seen posted on a gun forum."
Never had to shoot outside of a range huh? Lot of folks don't like it but there is a difference between shooting because you like it and shooting 'cause ya got to.

It's also got to do with conditioning...more than just muscle memory....some folks have actually said, "you don't shoot with your hand"...and it's true got to have your head in the game.

HAHAHA. People do have to fire weapons without hearing pro... hahaha....you will be ok...it will be alright...hahha...you guys kill me sometimes.

wouldn't do it every minute of every day...but like all things in moderation it is necessary.....like stress fire....like night fire.....

Also dude....get a trigger...same one as on your weapon.......put it in your hand in your off moments...let your finger become "aquainted" with the feel of it when you are not shooting and not under any pressure.

In fact I spent many years shooting--and being among people who were shooting--without hearing protection. I don't think that hearing protection was available to shooters (or perhaps to anyone) in the 1950s and 1960s. I wish it had been and, if it were and if the Army issued it then, I wish I had been intelligent enough to use it.

People in gunfights get shot too. Dave Grossman and others have written about the relationship between mindset and survival after being wounded. The only worse piece of advice than you give would be to tell citizens who carry guns to shoot themselves every once in a while for "conditioning." A bullet fragment in the eye from time to time could help with conditioning too, but no one in his right mind would advocate it in training. No one in his right mind.

It's usually kind of interesting to encounter mall ninjas and crackpots on these forums. You probably have a lot to say that might prove entertaining. Urging people towards behaviors that cause them lasting harm isn't even fun to watch, despite your antic behavior.

 

[Maximum1]

I agree dry-fire until you can hold it steady throughout the trigger pull and trough trigger break.

Also, you should strengthen you fingers…Try the Grip Master!

http://www.gripmaster.net/gripmaster/product_reviews.html

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...00&productId=1137&parent_category_rn=40000052

 

[I LIKE IT!]

How to get better? Hmm...let's see...

Practice shooting many times in different positions, speeds, targets, distances with as many types of firearms and you'll eventually find what works best for you.

Sure the basics like sight alignment, breathing, trigger pull are a must but after that all that's left is practice and trigger time.

 

[Abby]

Everyone else has pointed out very well the importance of good instruction and good technique.

One additional thing that I find works well for me...

I shoot ALL STEEL centerfire handguns. 1911s, a couple of solid steel 9mms. Once in a while, I start to see those rounds inching down to the left... But the weight on an all-steel gun is pretty forgiving, and it soaks up a lot of little errors.

So I finish my magazine and clear the "big gun." I then extract my trusty P22 and pull the target in fairly close.

I line up the sights VERY CAREFULLY, then SQUEEEEZE...and then I feel like an idiot when I do a GREAT BIG 1911 twitch with a tiny polymer .22.

I put a couple of magazines through the .22, concentrating on doing all the little things right. I breathe, I'm sooo sloooow with the trigger, etc etc.

Once I've got a fantastic group back with the .22 (this pistol drives me insane because it never groups the same twice, so quite often my group will be somewhere utterly bizarre on the target, but it doesn't matter), I can pick up the big gun again.

Keeps me honest. There's NOTHING WRONG with a grownup owning a .22 pistol, and I find that using it once per range trip helps me get quality practice with all the big rounds I bring.

 

[xd45gaper]

(you may be surprised at just how loud a .38spl snub is in a small enclosed space without earplugs.),


even in an open space those little suckers are LOUD!

I shot my 642 5 rounds with out hearing protection in an open area of the forest i hunt at and my ears where messed up for 3 days:banghead: !!! i couldnt beleve it, it was almost as loud as my old mini 14!! never would i shoot that thing with out some type of hearing protection. i normally wear double at the range helps with flinching and im not the only person firing so when i take my ears off i still have foamies in so as to not go deaf from other peoples shots!

I work around aircraft so im around loud noises all the time but nothing comes close to a gun shot at close range. and we are always required to wear double hearing protection.

 

[AndyC]

Once you're over the flinching and shooting straight, you'll want to shoot faster, so let me share something that works for me. Stop blinking when you shoot.

Watch any experienced shooters on the line - you'll notice that they don't blink when the shot goes off (contrast this with actors firing a weapon in a movie - they're uniformly dreadful and almost grimace with each trigger-pull).

Each time you blink, your eyes have to realign the sights and you then start the trigger-pull again. It may not seem like it, but it does actually slow you down.

When you don't blink, you can literally watch the front sight bounce back into position and (assuming you have a smooth, consistent trigger-pull which doesn't affect the sight-picture) pop off the next shot immediately and accurately.

It's not hard to fire 4 shots per second and still shred the head of an IPSC-style target at 15 yards. Everyone can get to this point eventually through enough practice - but there's a shortcut.

Align the sights then focus on the target itself - then pull the trigger rythmically, (typically once per second), actively looking for the bulletholes in the target. Don't worry about the grouping initially - you're looking for a consistent, monotonous rythm. It may take a few mags, but eventually your brain will get used to the steady rythm of the gunshots and your eyes will cease to blink - and you'll notice how much more quickly you're able to get off the next round, eventually becoming extremely fast.

I'm better at showing people how this works than describing it; I've trained a few hundred people to do this and they're usually awestruck how fast they can suddenly shoot accurately after only a few magazines' worth of ammo to train their brain.

 

[spalit]

The best way I know of to cure trigger pull is the surprise break. I use this for all my shooting, pistol or rifle. The way to do this is to not "pull" during the trigger pull . It's amazing how two words "trigger pull" can cause so much confusion. It took me some years to figure this out :banghead:

Now I hope I can describe this accurately

Step 1: make sure that the first joint of your trigger finger is around the trigger, and not the tip of your finger, which is typically a big culprit in the "trigger twitch" syndrome
Step 2: make sure the web between your thumb and index finger is placed against the rear of the grip in a straight line with the barrel. Incidentally, this is why I prefer the pistol-grip style stocks (like the Encore). My Tikka has a decent pistol-grip style to it as well.
Step 3: Forget that you are holding on to a trigger. Pretend you are holding a stress ball, and squeeze your hand around the grip. Unless you have some kind of insane weight on your trigger, you will get a clean surprise break every time. If you've done step 2 right, your wrist won't twist on a vertical axis with the recoil
Step 4: Having mastered the clean break, time it with your breathing and "boxing" the target - chances are you will hit the bull ar very near it every single time.

Every shot of mine that goes awry can be directly attributed to user error on my part in not following one of the above steps.