Shooting The .50-70 with blackpowder

[RWMC]

Not for sure this is the right area to post, so sorry if its not. Iv'e been thinking about shooting an 1866 2nd Allin conversion Springfield .50-70 with black powder. I will be using the Lee 450 grain bullet, cast in about pure lead. The reloading dies sizing die sizes the case down too much for the 518 dia. bullet the Lee mould cast. My question is this: will it be okay to just thumb-load the lubed 450 grain bullet into the powder charged case and to fire it that way? Thanks for your help, and Merry Christmas to all!

 

[Foto Joe]

I'm not familiar with the gun but since nobody else has chimed in I'll give you my two cents worth.

First off, what lube are you using? Are you loading with real Black Powder or sub?

Thumb seating shouldn't be a problem as long as the bullet doesn't fall out. Make sure that it's seated snug up against the powder or over-powder veggie wad. You definitely don't want any air space between the powder and bullet.

Unlike smokeless, Black Powder isn't as dependent upon crimp for an initial pressure spike to get a consistant powder burn so as long as the bullet doesn't fall out on the ground while you're loading it you shouldn't have any problems. Although your initial accuracy may not be the best.

Personally, I would "work up" the load by starting with a considerably lower powder charge, starting say with 35-40gr of 2f or 3f if that's all you've got. Take up the extra space with corn meal or cream of wheat, corn meal compresses better.

Keep in mind that once you shoot this thing with Black Powder it's going to take days if not weeks to wipe that stupid grin off your face.

 

[45-70 Ranger]

Many of the earlier conversions had barrel liners inside old bored out .58 cal. rifled muskets. Bore diameter in these varried quite a bit. Even when new barrels were made, the bore diameter was often not to specs. With that said, I would suggest to slug your bore and find its true diameter, and then go with a sized round .001" or .002" over groove diameter. A chamber casting may be in order as well to determine if the chamber is undersized compared to the bore. This will tell you if you will have a conflict with the chambe v.s. the bore. It's not likely, but it has happened a few times. Measurements are a lot cheaper than breaking something.

You mentioned that the bullet is .518". Is that being loaded unsized? That might be a tad too large for your piece. Do check the bore diameter and be sure before you venture off the charts so to speak...

Had an old Remington Rolling Block that was a 45-70, but it miked out to be .462". That made for some difficult loading with conventional dies. So I sized the cast bullet accordingly and used the fire formed cases by simply pressing the sized round into the unsized case. Since it was a singleshot, no crimp was needed, and it fired as well as it could be expected with this arrangement. It was a tight fit in the chamber, but it worked. You may be able to do the same here.

Good luck with this fine old piece of history. Hope that some of this helped...

Wade

 

[RWMC]

Thank-you for the input.

 

[StrawHat]

The Second Allin conversion used a stepped liner in the barrel and it was rifled with three grooves. Trying to mike a three grooved bore or bullet is a bit trying. I have an 1866 and have used the Lee and Lyman bullets as cast and pan lubed. Take one of your bullets and color the bands with a magic marker. Run the bullet down the bore, if all or most of the marker color is gone, you should be good to go.

Black powder only in the old rifle please. A good lube and you are on your way to a lot of fun.

Thumb pressing the bullet in place will work but at some point get the correct dies so you can carry the loaded rounds a bit easier. What dies do you have? You may be able to modify them.

This is my 1866 I restocked and shoot. When I got it, all I had was the barreled action.



There is a group buy going on another site for a 50 caliber, 450 grain, hollow based bullet. It will help make the odd grooved bores easier to shoot.

I am currently looking for a lighter 350 grain bullet mold to hollow point for my rifle.

 

[Racebannon]

If this helps, I shoot an original Sharps New Model 1863 converted to 50-70 Govt. I use the 450 gr Lee Bullet and American Patriot Powder 2FG in Starline brass with a large magnum rifle primer. This is not a match gun or loads but I have a great amount of fun with them. I have not had any problems with pressure or performance. The rounds seem to hit POA at 200 yards, at shorter distances they shoot high.



I use the original sights and the front is a little worn down so this may help account for the POA. Milk jug or an old (and empty) 5 ganl fuel can are worthy and challenging targets at 100 to 200 yards.



Hope this helps!!