Shootout in Walmart parking lot.

[AnselHazen]

This is how it's done folks. Daniel Chavanne should be the poster child for responsible gun ownership. The only shots fired were by the criminals.
I heard his wife do an interview yesterday driving home from work. She stated it took 7 min for police to arrive on scene.

The article seems to take a much better stance at presenting the story than others in the area.

http://www.centralmaine.com/2016/06...redited-with-breaking-up-shooting-in-augusta/

 

[Sam1911]

Good heavens! He's a VERY, very fortunate man. And his family is incredibly lucky he's still alive.

You have your wife and kids in your car and you're in motion heading away from what turns into a scene of armed violence.


So you STOP THE CAR (with your wife and kids in it!!!) and GET OUT, and go take your own gun into a gun fight in progress and start making commands?



I'm glad, I guess, that the guy says it was "instinct." At least then he has an excuse to claim he didn't consciously make those incredibly poor choices willfully.

“From our standpoint,” Massey said, “everybody has a constitutional right under the Second Amendment to have a gun. In an incident like this, we certainly would tell people that they should get themselves and their families to safety and be a good witness.”

Hats off and a deep thank you to the good Lt. here who has a sound head on his shoulders. I'm sure he's grateful he's not filling out a report on the death of this good Samaritan or one of his children.

(EDIT: Or having to explain to a confused public and distraught family why Mr. Good Samaritan is now in jail facing felony charges for his mistakes while thinking he was doing the right thing.)

This is how it's done folks. Daniel Chavanne should be the poster child for responsible gun ownership.

Absolutely NOT. This is a textbook case of what NOT to do.

Just because someone got incredibly lucky is no excuse for lauding or emulating their daft actions.

Whatever was going on between the four miscreants who were arrested, it wasn't worth ONE FRACTION of what Mr. Chavanne risked to stop it. ***

Unfortunately, the real lessons of such a thing are always lost amid the comic book superhero adulation of those who have no clue what really was in play.





*** -- "Hey, look! There's four irate 'People of WalMart' rednecks blasting at each other in a parking lot. I think I'll take my own life, or my own freedom, the lives of my wife and my children, my ability to provide for them, their ability to make the rent, pay for groceries, go to college, have a successful start in life, my wife's security in her later years, and the love and nurturing presence of a father and husband that it is my duty to provide -- I'll take all that and count it as worth LESS than whatever these knuckle-dragging ingrates are up to beating on each other in a public parking lot. Yeah, that makes GREAT sense."

 

[Double Naught Spy]

While Carrie Chavanne is a gun owner, she didn’t have hers with her.

Imagine that. Some mother bear she is.

 

[huntsman]

being a "hero" is not the reason I CC.

 

[pittpa]

There you go. A 380 IS a viable SD weapon. Wonder if they'd have surrendered to a KelTec 380, or did they think the Glock was maybe a 43.


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[herkyguy]

Well spoken guy. Good example of 2A.

A few years back, I saw something very similar. Walking back to my truck at Walmart (I almost always park away from the congested spots), there was a young woman in a car and a guy about her age standing next to the driver's side door. He was yelling at her rather forcefully. She was arguing back, but not nearly as loud or aggressive as he was.

So I put my bag of groceries in the truck, stood there for a moment listening to him yelling at her and opted to dial 911. Cops were then on the way. I stood by my truck for about a minute or so, just watching and waiting. The guy smacked the car a few times but didn't escalate beyond that. When the first cruiser rolled in, the angry guy complied with whatever the cop said so I got into my truck and left.

Had he become violent, I wasn't gonna watch a girl in her early 20s get beat up. I would have intervened. Not sure I would have opted to draw my gun, but I most certainly would he intervened.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

This is how it's done folks.

This is exactly the opposite of what he should have done! We are not vigilantes! If you want to be a cop, then be a cop.

To knowingly insert yourself into a firefight that doesn't involve you in any way is totally irresponsible, and I am dumbfounded that his wife isn't mad as hell. He allowed his wife and daughter to potentially become collateral damage.

A concealed gun should be used to defend yourself and your loved ones when confronted with an attacker, and as a tool to get yourself and loved ones out of a bad situation should one develop in your proximity. He was already driving his family to safety.

He should have kept on driving.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

There you go. A 380 IS a viable SD weapon. Wonder if they'd have surrendered to a KelTec 380, or did they think the Glock was maybe a 43.


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I doubt very much any of them would know the difference or contemplate the potential lethality of a gun based on the cartridge it might fire.

 

[dust_101]

There you go. A 380 IS a viable SD weapon. Wonder if they'd have surrendered to a KelTec 380, or did they think the Glock was maybe a 43.

Glocks are almost as scary as the dreaded AR15. Someone pulls one of those, you know they spent some cash, and they probably work, so you better put your Jennings 59 away yo.

(The above is a partially sarcastic post, and not directed at any THR member with an actual Jennings or Bryco 9mm)

 

[Kleanbore]

What an idiot.

 

[pockets]

Glad that both concealed carriers didn't get hurt.
But nothing on my CHL or in Ohio law says I became a policeman when they handed me the card.

Actually, it might have been a benefit to let the four remove each other.
The mug shots of these 4 thugs & thuggets (two men and two women) are just precious.
Illegal guns, heroin, and shootouts at Walmart....mighty fine citizens.

Here is a longer article with the mugshots.
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/06/...ng-together-shooting-at-wal-mart-parking-lot/

.

 

[Wishoot]

My first responsibility is my families safety.

Ergo, I would of figured out the quickest means of removing them from the violence. NOT leaving them in a car while I go play policeman.

 

[Speedo66]

Once I left the legal and financial protection the state provided me, my days of getting involved are over. I'll call 911 and be a great witness.

You never know what the participants are going to do, not unusual for them both to turn on the person trying to break it up. Had a situation where I was off duty and see a young guy screaming at a young woman and basically dragging her down the street by her hair. I stop my car, identify myself, and ask what's going on. The guy releases the woman who proceeds to starting screaming at me to mind my own business. The guy reminds her I stopped to help her and to be more polite. She continues to curse me out. Shook my head and left them to enjoy their own perverse version of love life.

 

[stompah]

In your car with your family with an option to leave safely. Versus laying in a pool of your life as your family screams and the lights get dim...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

This is exactly the opposite of what he should have done! We are not vigilantes!

While it is not what should have been done, he acted within the law and he acted within self defense laws. That does not make him a vigilante.

Vigilante:

A person who is not a member of law enforcement but who pursues and punishes persons suspected of lawbreaking.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vigilante

 

[Sam1911]

...he acted within the law and he acted within self defense laws.

Uh, well, we know that the police do not appear to be pressing charges for anything, at least. I wouldn't necessarily say everything he did was LEGAL, as we simply don't know for sure.

His actions would absolutely NOT be covered by any self defense law, though, as he was not under attack and he went and inserted himself willfully into danger. What he did may (or may not) fall into a category of whatever Maine's version of "Citizen's Arrest" law might be, but I've no idea and that's not something we like to get into here.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

His actions would absolutely NOT be covered by any self defense law, though, as he was not under attack and he went and inserted himself willfully into danger.

Protection of others is covered under self defense laws.

 

[pockets]

He is extremely lucky on all counts...as is his family that he put in danger.

Self Defense?
He was driving away in his vehicle with his family, then he stopped, got out of the vehicle (leaving his family unarmed), then went over to initiate an armed confrontation with people who were already shooting at each other.
Where does 'self defense' come to play? I don't know Georgia's laws, so I could be mistaken.

Like I said...he's extremely lucky all of this turned out as it did.

 

[edmo01]

I understand and agree the prudent action would have been to continue driving away...

However, if I or one of my family is ever attacked by violent criminals I would hope someone would have the fortitude to step in to provide aid and assistance.

Edmo

 

[yugorpk]

The whole purpose of carrying a gun is to get you out of trouble. Its not a ticket to get you into trouble.

That guy is an idiot.

 

[Sam1911]

Protection of others is covered under self defense laws.

Fair point, but, aside from the fact that all four of the fighting parties were arrested for various things, we really don't know any facts about who was doing what -- and he certainly wouldn't have, either. Self defense (or some version of lawful use of force laws) may cover protection of others, but only where those others could lawfully be using the same force to defend themselves.

"Mutual combatants" and anyone engaged in criminal activity lose those claims to lawful use of force.

We often caution about jumping into what looks like coming to the rescue only to find out that you've just used lethal force to "win" for someone in a drug deal gone bad (or some similar illegal activity).

And the fact that this story seems to say that he ordered everyone to the ground and covered them all with his gun until police arrived points to him not having been coming to the defense of anyone in particular.

 

[Sam1911]

However, if I or one of my family is ever attacked by violent criminals I would hope someone would have the fortitude to step in to provide aid and assistance.

Sure. We all may wish and hope for such a thing.

Keeping yourself and your family from engaging in whatever these four were doing that ended in exchange of fisticuffs and gunfire (while in possession of drugs) would be a much better bet than hoping that someone else comes along who's brave and dumb enough to risk his and his family's EVERYTHING on trying to keep the peace.

 

[AnselHazen]

"heard the argument across the parking lot. "


Some of the details of the incident are perhaps not presented clearly in the article. Having listened to the live interview on the radio with his wife what maybe doesn't come across is the gunfight wasn't right next to the car. It turned into a fight and both shooters weapons were visible on the ground. One had popped it's magazine. That's the point at which Chavanne entered into the situation and was even able to cover one with his foot. He more than likely stopped one or both shooters from recovering their weapons and continuing to be able to shoot. A clear danger to all innocent civilians in the area. Even though the wife (Carrie) said at one point in the interview "they couldn't hit a barn door broadside" (her words ) And she is the one speaking because it was said he has a hearing disability.

I shop at that Walmart with a full size Steyr 9mm on my hip. What was occurring (drug deal) has become a serious problem in this state. In less than a day these thugs can drive up from NY and NJ with carloads of narcotics. It's gotten out of hand. Chavanne was no cowboy, he didn't go looking for this. It just happened while he was out shopping and he stepped up. In these exact circumstances I expect I might act as he did and feel just as right about it. I know his wife is some proud of him.

As pointed out there are no charges pending against the two who stopped these criminals from getting away. No the cops don't like it, probably because on the face of it this is a classic example of when seconds count the police are minutes away. I'm sure the police don't ever like looking ineffective.

This was not a George Zimmerman thing who as far as I'm concerned went looking for trouble. That's a cowboy. This incident is not that, it's just a citizen who stepped up in the face of danger and more than likely prevented these scumbags from recovering their guns and continuing to shoot at each other.

 

[Al Thompson]

Kathy Jackson has a recent blog post that sure seems applicable:

https://www.corneredcat.com/be-a-bad-witness-or-curiosity-killed-the-cat/

Many years ago, my husband and I were at a mall when something happened. As we walked along the upper level, we heard shouting from down below. Looking over the railing, we saw two mall security guards and five or six law enforcement officers with rifles running, flat out, toward the other end of the mall on the lower level.

Bob and I looked at each other and without a word, we turned around and started moving — rapidly — toward the exit, which was the opposite direction from the way the men with guns were moving.

Good read......

 

[Zaydok Allen]

That does not make him a vigilante.

A person who is not a member of law enforcement but who pursues and punishes persons suspected of law breaking.

Vigilante:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vigilante

He was leaving and made the decision to stop, and then insert himself into the situation. That would be pursuing. Because the people he confronted did not get away doesn't mean he didn't pursue, it just means they were bad evaders.

Daniel Chavanne walked over to the nearby scene of the shooting and dispute, showed his Glock 42 pistol, announced he was armed and told those fighting to get down on the ground.

He kicked one of the guns away from a man on the ground and held it down with his foot.

So he ordered them to get on the ground, he detained them, and then he disarmed one of them. Why would you order people to get on the ground other than to detain them? Why would you detain them rather than chase them off? So they would be apprehended and charged. Charges that result in a conviction with consequences would be a punishment.

Did he summarily execute them? No, but he did pursue, and he did detain them with the intent that they would be punished.

Your comment is nitpicking something that is clearly implied. Does it sound better if I were to say "We are not un-deputized police officers."?

I'm all for interceding when someone is clearly being victimized, and was faced with just that type of situation not long ago. The cops were called, and I stood at the ready to step in if things escalated. But as Sam points out, that is a potentially gray area as well. This is a different situation entirely, and as far as I'm concerned he got lucky. I also feel he failed his family by choosing to stop and stick his nose in something rather than getting his family to safety.