Revolver Ocelot
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,470
at what point would you consider a revolver to be short barreled and thus require the use of short barreled ammo?
short barrel revolver question
- Thread starter Revolver Ocelot
- Start date
- Status
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
To me, short means less then the most common barrel length used by police for most of the 20th century.
In otherwords, 4" and up is normal.
Less then 4" is a short barrel.
As for "requiring" short barrel ammo?
No.
Snubby revolvers handle most standard .38 Special ammo about as well as any other ammo. You might see some gains in .357 Magnum but it is more a reduction in muzzle blast & flash then any increase in velocity.
A Magnum charge of slow burning powder always gives the highest velocity, no matter what barrel length it is shot from.
rc
In otherwords, 4" and up is normal.
Less then 4" is a short barrel.
As for "requiring" short barrel ammo?
No.
Snubby revolvers handle most standard .38 Special ammo about as well as any other ammo. You might see some gains in .357 Magnum but it is more a reduction in muzzle blast & flash then any increase in velocity.
A Magnum charge of slow burning powder always gives the highest velocity, no matter what barrel length it is shot from.
rc
Marvin KNox
Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 244
3" or under
Landric
Member
I think that short barrel ammunition is mostly a gimmick. I am sure it is designed for short barrels, but the idea that it is necessary is overblown. I've chronographed multiple handloads and some factory ammunition from various barrel lengths, 4", 3", and 2". Generally there is not a big difference between 3" and 4" velocities. 2" guns loose more, so if it is required at all, its in 2" guns.
M2 Carbine
member
I reload, so I can ues any powder I want. I use the same powder and bullet whether I shoot the ammo in a 2 inch of 6 inch barrel 38 Special.
TimM
Member
It does expand better from what I have personally experienced from my snubs.
Eightball
Member
2 inches. 3" is almost a "mid"-ish barrel, with 4" being "normal", then 6"+="long".
Nicodemus38
Member
- Joined
- May 11, 2009
- Messages
- 583
people back in the 1800s and into the prohibition era were happy and content with using standard factory ammo in the short barreled handguns of the day. if they had a 44 or 45 cut down to 3 inches for a nice belly gun, theyd simply use the same cartridges that they used for a full size .45 sw or 45 lc.
The "Short Barrel .357" Gold Dot stuff I bought the other day has a bullet that expands at a lower velocity and a reduced powder charge. It's just a hair faster than the similar .38+P ammo. I'm sure it does have less recoil and muzzle blast/flash than most .357, because it's not as powerful.
It's probably more appropriate for a snubbie, really, than full-power .357.
OTOH it's not much different from .38+P, which is one reason I am not too excited to pay the massive price premium for an alloy S&W .357 pocket gun, over the .38+P version. But for my steel .357 snubbie, it ought to be a pleasant load. (I shoot my hot handloaded .357 trail ammo in it, too, and it's manageable, but not exactly pleasant after a while.)
Kernel
Member
They make "short barreled ammo"?
That's news to me.
That's news to me.
jfh
Member.
The key to understanding short barrel ammo is that 1) bullet design is optimized to the velocities one will have from 2"-4" barreled guns, and 2) that the recoil from the round will be at least tolerable in a lightweight carry gun.
The Speer 135-gr. bullet expands reliably from about 850-1050 fps. Below that, minimal expansion; above that likely fragmentation. In my tests with it, the 38+P runs about 880-880 from a 2" barrel, and the 357, about 970 fps from the same revolver (M&P340, 640). The 38+P bullet ran about 970+ from a 3" M60--the same as the 357 round from a 2" barrel. The 38 Special version's bullet exits a 686-4" at about 1020 fps. I suspect the 357 round may not run over 1100. Does anyone have any chrono results of the GDSB 135-gr. round from a 6" or more barrel? I don't know of any.
On average, penetration of the 135-gr. GDSB bullets seems to run just under 11"; see Brassfetcher's tests.
I've not tested other 357 rounds--but I would be curious to know the velocity of a 125-gr. hot rod from a 2" barrel. I have shot some of those from a SP 101--and after a boxfull, my hand was bruised. I'll take the Speer 135-gr 38+p GDSB round any day over that in a lightweight. As ArmedBear notes, they are pleasant to shoot in a steel 2"--e.g., a 640.
The "FBI-type' rounds--in 38+P, a 158-gr. LSWC-HP running maybe 810 or so--shows a hair better penetration, about the same expansion--and a bit more / firmer recoil, but quite shootable as well. Now, if Remington / or whoever would do a 357S12--i.e., a loaded-down 357 with that 158LSWC-HP running at 900 fps from a 2" barrel, they would probably have a real marketable round to go against Speer. That's about the maximum reload I can shoot from the M&P340 and still reload, and meet Old Fuff's "Quad Five" criteria.
Take all the factors together, and you have the makings of a carry package that is lightweight, tolerable to shoot, with effective penetration and expansion.
Jim H.
The Speer 135-gr. bullet expands reliably from about 850-1050 fps. Below that, minimal expansion; above that likely fragmentation. In my tests with it, the 38+P runs about 880-880 from a 2" barrel, and the 357, about 970 fps from the same revolver (M&P340, 640). The 38+P bullet ran about 970+ from a 3" M60--the same as the 357 round from a 2" barrel. The 38 Special version's bullet exits a 686-4" at about 1020 fps. I suspect the 357 round may not run over 1100. Does anyone have any chrono results of the GDSB 135-gr. round from a 6" or more barrel? I don't know of any.
On average, penetration of the 135-gr. GDSB bullets seems to run just under 11"; see Brassfetcher's tests.
I've not tested other 357 rounds--but I would be curious to know the velocity of a 125-gr. hot rod from a 2" barrel. I have shot some of those from a SP 101--and after a boxfull, my hand was bruised. I'll take the Speer 135-gr 38+p GDSB round any day over that in a lightweight. As ArmedBear notes, they are pleasant to shoot in a steel 2"--e.g., a 640.
The "FBI-type' rounds--in 38+P, a 158-gr. LSWC-HP running maybe 810 or so--shows a hair better penetration, about the same expansion--and a bit more / firmer recoil, but quite shootable as well. Now, if Remington / or whoever would do a 357S12--i.e., a loaded-down 357 with that 158LSWC-HP running at 900 fps from a 2" barrel, they would probably have a real marketable round to go against Speer. That's about the maximum reload I can shoot from the M&P340 and still reload, and meet Old Fuff's "Quad Five" criteria.
Take all the factors together, and you have the makings of a carry package that is lightweight, tolerable to shoot, with effective penetration and expansion.
Jim H.
Last edited:
Landric
Member
I've chronographed both Speer 125 grain Gold Dot and Federal Classic 125 grain SJHP .357 Magnum rounds from my 2 1/4" SP101. The results were:
125 grain Magnum Gold Dot: Ave. 1242 fps, 428 ft.-lbs. of energy
125 grain Magnum Federal: Ave. 1293 fps, 464 ft.-lbs. of energy
135 grain .38 Special Gold Dot Short Barrel: Ave. 856 fps, 219 ft.-lbs. of energy
The magnum loads averaged 1392 and 1428 fps respectively out of my 4" S&W 681-3.
125 grain Magnum Gold Dot: Ave. 1242 fps, 428 ft.-lbs. of energy
125 grain Magnum Federal: Ave. 1293 fps, 464 ft.-lbs. of energy
135 grain .38 Special Gold Dot Short Barrel: Ave. 856 fps, 219 ft.-lbs. of energy
The magnum loads averaged 1392 and 1428 fps respectively out of my 4" S&W 681-3.
earlthegoat2
Member
I use rcmodel's definition of short barrel
My own definition of snubby though is anything 2 1/2 or less. Yes that means no Ruger sixes.
My own definition of snubby though is anything 2 1/2 or less. Yes that means no Ruger sixes.
A short-barreled weapon does NOT "require" the use of ammo with "short barrel" marked on the box! While Speer short barrel ammo may be optimized for stubby weapons, I assure y'all that any good ammo will indeed go bang if fired from a snubby.
OTOH, it has long been known among magnum snubby shooters that certain ammo, such as the Winchester Silvertip, is friendlier to shoot from snubbies than such loads as the Federal silver-box Classic 125-grain. When I regularly carried 4" magnum sixguns with adjustable sights, I used the hot 125-grain Federal ammo in my snubbies, too. Now that I carry SIGs for duty and most CC, I typically use 145-grain Silvertips in my snubbies, with the added bonus that the Silvertips generally hit closer to point of aim from fixed-sight weapons.
I have obtained a couple of boxes of Speer short barrel .357 ammo, and plan to give it a try, but I certainly don't think it is a requirement, and will not fret if I run out of it and then can't find it. My SP101s are heavy enough not to beat me up if I shoot standard ammo, especially the Silvertips.
OTOH, it has long been known among magnum snubby shooters that certain ammo, such as the Winchester Silvertip, is friendlier to shoot from snubbies than such loads as the Federal silver-box Classic 125-grain. When I regularly carried 4" magnum sixguns with adjustable sights, I used the hot 125-grain Federal ammo in my snubbies, too. Now that I carry SIGs for duty and most CC, I typically use 145-grain Silvertips in my snubbies, with the added bonus that the Silvertips generally hit closer to point of aim from fixed-sight weapons.
I have obtained a couple of boxes of Speer short barrel .357 ammo, and plan to give it a try, but I certainly don't think it is a requirement, and will not fret if I run out of it and then can't find it. My SP101s are heavy enough not to beat me up if I shoot standard ammo, especially the Silvertips.
- Status
