shot in head by?

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opr1945

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I watched the CNN special on the Biker shoot out at Waco a year ago. At on point the video showed a guy firing a hand gun. Then all of a sudden he gets shot in the head and jerks violently backward and fall down dead. The bikers were hooting handguns. the police apparently had.223 assault rifles.

Question: will getting shot in the head by a handgun cause that reaction, or would it take being shot by assault rifle?
 
Violent body movements due to gunshots are typically due to the individual's reaction as opposed to "reaction mass" of the projectile. The physics doesn't do it.
 
A .223 will usually be more destructive than a .38 or .45. But, if a hit from a .223 is near the edge of the brain, there might not be massive tissue destruction.

It is not uncommon for a brain hit to cause violent tremors of the whole body. I've seen it via .22 rimfire headshots to feral dogs and cats.

I guess that for me, there's no such thing as "always" in this sort of event. A lot of "maybe" and "sometimes".
 
Yes it's a bit unsettling to some but if you've been around animals being slaughtered by bullet or knocking gun or dispatched in traps the ideal shot is to the head/brain.
You will see stiffening of the extremities and violent twitching among other things as the process of dying unfolds and we are no different.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
The brain connects to all the body organs/nerve ends etc.

Severe the brain stem? You are done. One of my students shot a wound up, well into drinking rum, young man, fired a .38 spl +P SWC non hollow point from 6ft. From a S&W Mod 65 stainless revolver.

The bullet went straight through the heart, was found on the gurney when the cloths were cut off in the emergency room.

The effect, as told to me, person stopped, hands fell to sides, broken pint glass was let go. The collapse was straight down. As though all the bones turned to water. A non head shot.
 
If you've ever seen the Bud Dwyer video ( Don't go looking for it. You wont like it ) you'll have a pretty good idea of what happens with a good head shot. Straight down collapse. Then again Gabby Gifford didnt sustain as much damage as you'd think she should have from her head wound.
 
Reaction and damage from a 223 would depend a lot on the projectile used. A V-MAX is going to be much messier than a FMJ. I would be surprised if a FMJ from a 223 left a bigger wound channel than a 38 HP.
 
My neighbor had a huge bull butchered.
The slaughter guy used a .22 mag.
Head shot from around 25 feet.
That big bull didn't even twitch he went straight down and that was that.
Shot placement is key.
 
Captcurt said:
Reaction and damage from a 223 would depend a lot on the projectile used. A V-MAX is going to be much messier than a FMJ. I would be surprised if a FMJ from a 223 left a bigger wound channel than a 38 HP.
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Depends on whether/how the FMJ tumbles.

LE shooting 5.56/.223 will probably be using some form of OTM, BTHP, or bonded SP...not a varmint bullet like v-max and not a FMJ
 
Interesting to note Dwyer was still holding on to the revolver.

M
 
head shots will often do many different things.

fall down dead never twitch. or fall down dead and twitch for awhile.or flop around like crazy.

we used to have tons of feral cats here that i hunted. when head shot just right, with a 22, they would do 3 ft back flips in the air several times then just die.
 
acdodd said:
My neighbor had a huge bull butchered.
The slaughter guy used a .22 mag.
Head shot from around 25 feet.
That big bull didn't even twitch he went straight down and that was that.
Shot placement is key.
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^^ This! ^^

Growing up on a farm, several times, Dad would have a guy come out to quarter up the fatten steer. He would use a 22. Not sure if it was LR or magnum. One shot to the forehead, and the steer fell lifeless. We would watch as he skinned and all, only to see a muscle here and there twitch. But the old guy said occasionally he would have one start kicking when he cut the veins around the throat. Hey, it was country entertainment!

As for a human. There was a gun battle, fear and adrenaline would be high.
 
In another part of my life I was witness to the aftermath of quite a few suicides. Two of these were head shots in motel rooms.

A young lady had stolen her Dad's .45 ACP Glock, and it was an in and out wound with an FMJ that then penetrated the wall and fell harmlessly to the carpet in the adjoining room. She was sitting up against the headboard, and was slumped over with exactly one drop of blood falling down on her arm. The pistol rechambered the next round, and rotated around her trigger finger with the muzzle pointing at the room door. I am sure that she was DRT, with full immediate shut down of heart and other functions.

The other was a young man who did the job with a .22 pistol. The round entered the skull, but did not exit. He must have flopped around quite a bit since there was blood spray all over the room. It looked like his heart pumped out every drop of his blood.

I don't want to have to ever witness any more incidents like these (not to mention the hangings, car wrecks, industrial accidents, etc. I had to attend), but they were enough to show me that a head wound can end up in many different ways.
 
Okay, the guy flew backwards as if a rope was attached to the back of his head, not dropped, not quivering, etc. My question was does this indicate a shot by a high powered rifle, and thus shot by police? or could a handgun also do this, thus not evidence of who shot him?
 
I always thought neurological causes were the reason for JFK's violently rearward reaction, given that he was shot in back of the head. Conspiracy theorists have always been quick to conclude that was incongruous and suggested the presence of another shooter. As hso wrote physics alone is insufficient to support that conclusion.
 
opr1945 said:
Okay, the guy flew backwards as if a rope was attached to the back of his head, not dropped, not quivering, etc. My question was does this indicate a shot by a high powered rifle, and thus shot by police? or could a handgun also do this, thus not evidence of who shot him?
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No.

BTW, 5.56/.223 isn't really what we would call a "high powered rifle". That is an intermediate rifle cartridge.

I know I know NRA high power etc, but when somebody says "high powered rifle" they aren't talking intermediate stuff like 5.56 or 7.62x39, generally
 
opr1945 said:
My question was does this indicate a shot by a high powered rifle, and thus shot by police? or could a handgun also do this, thus not evidence of who shot him?
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It is not indicative of the weapon used.

I'd also have to echo Warp that the 5.56x45mm isn't a high power rifle round
 
I'd argue it is if you get shot in the head with it.

Compared to a handgun bullet going perhaps 1,000 FPS or less?
A .223 going almost 3,000 would be like an explosion.

They wouldn't be measuring 1/4" holes.
They would be looking for enough head to measure.

rc
 
Warp said:
No.

BTW, 5.56/.223 isn't really what we would call a "high powered rifle". That is an intermediate rifle cartridge.

I know I know NRA high power etc, but when somebody says "high powered rifle" they aren't talking intermediate stuff like 5.56 or 7.62x39, generally
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In the media, "high powered" generally means "centerfire", or anything larger than a .22 rimfire. Here's a quote from a book on New York state laws, 1923:

"A high-powered rifle, as the term is used herein, means any rifle of greater calibre or projective power than the rifle commonly known as a “twenty-two calibre rifle."


That's the typical definition.



Here's another quote, this time from a West Virginia Attorney General's report, 1929. This guy seems to know his guns a bit better and put forward a more complex definition.

"The muzzle velocity of 1900 f. s. is, in my opinion, necessary to constitute a “high powered rifle'.” Practically every rifle larger than those taking .22 rim fire cartridges are now classified as high powered rifles. It is possible that the legislature did not intend to include the .22 caliber small rifle in the category of high powered rifles. I think the .22 caliber rifle using rim-fire ammunition does not come in this class, but all other rifles of every kind and description would be classified as high powered rifles. To sum up, a high powered rifle is any rifle, regardless of caliber, using high powered ammunition, or capable of being made into high powered rifle by the use of existing high power cartridges, except:

(a) Rifles using rim fire cartridges of any caliber.

(b) Muzzle loading rifles.

Generally speaking, high powered ammunition is ammunition in which smokeless powder is used, the projectile covered or jacketed and center fire, and generating a muzzle velocity of at least 1900 feet per second."



So the use of this term may often be simple ignorance, but it has a legal history as well.
 
Goosey said:
In the media,
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I rest my case.

Every single centerfire rifle is not a high powered rifle. Not only is that just nonsensical if you know guns, but it also defeats the purpose of even having the term.

Unless you are the media and want to make everything sound scary and powerful and in need of being restricted/controlled/banned, or you are a politician.
 
Many years ago (about 40) a woman I knew put the barrel of a .22 pistol in her mouth and pulled the trigger. The bullet went through roof of her mouth right between the two halves of her brain and out through the top of here head.

Last time I talked to here she seems no worse for the experience.
 
GAF said:
Many years ago (about 40) a woman I knew put the barrel of a .22 pistol in her mouth and pulled the trigger. The bullet went through roof of her mouth right between the two halves of her brain and out through the top of here head.

Last time I talked to here she seems no worse for the experience.
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WOW!
 
A rather morbid thread, but ....OK here goes. My only bad memory of Nam (I was a proud REMF) was seeing a VC suspect shot in the forehead by an M-16 at a range of fifty feet. He dropped straight to the ground. In doing so he dropped the grenade he had been carrying, the safety lever sailed away and five seconds later it exploded. He was shot by a Korean Lieutenant in the ROK Tiger division, who suspected correctly that he was up to no good. The VC had been repeatedly warned to stop and show his hands. This happened in Qui Nhon.

The point being, in this case if instant death, there was absolutely no reaction from the dead man. No spasms, twitches, involuntary muscle reactions...nothing. He simply collapsed.

Whether or not this is normal I do not know, I only know what I saw.

Wish I could forget it.
 
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