Shot my Dragoon in my SASS match

[dickwholliday]

after getting a lot of info from Gatofeo's post and info from a few local Black powder shooters, i took my recently inherited Second generation first model colt dragoon to the monthly SASS match......below are a few observations......please feel free to make comments....thanks in advance

1. The dragoon liked Remington Caps better than the CCI....i had failures to fire with the CCI's on a regular basis...The CCI's would fire after a second hit....i did not have a failure of a Remington to fire...the only problem i had was a failure to ignite the powder with the Remington but i figured that was due to a clogged up nipple.......

2. i'm thinking about ordering some new nipples for the Dragoon.....i noticed in a catalog or two there are several different thread sizes....What thread size does the dragoon require?????

3. i used the over powder wads that i inherited with the gun rather than grease or whatever over the ball.

4. i went out friday and before setting up the cowboy match i played with a few powder loads....an old time black powder shooter told me to use a 38 case of black powder with corn meal on top for an accuracy load....i tried that and it was much too wimpy using a 38 case full of pyrodex P....so i filled the cylinder to the top with the same stuff, put on a wad and a ball...now that was more like what i was looking for...lots of smoke, blast and recoil...what a hoot......

5. We had a little rain during the match and needless to say everything got a little wet......i loaded the dragoon with powder and ball (no Cap) and set it asside before the next stage....after the stage ended i went back to get the dragoon and low and behold the darn thing had started to rust under every rain drop....a little history is due now....for some reason the previous owner had taken off the bluing and it is now a bright stainless looking finish....you can see a picture of Dick Holliday and the silver dragoon by going here.. http://www.ragtimekid.com/images/brr_3_19_05_077.jpg. i guess the lack of bluing is the reason for the sudden rusting?????????

6. When i got home i dissassembled the dragoon all the way except for taking the trigger group apart......i think i used Gatafeo's method for the most part...i scrubbed everything down with dawn and hot water...i put it in the oven and set it on low.....oooops i started watching Wake Forest get beat and dozed off....woke up around 1am and needless to say the parts in the oven were pretty hot.....i think my hands are still a little touchy from trying to grease it up.....since we're on some sort of diet most of the time there was no crisco in the house but i did have some bore butter.....it would melt instantly upon touching the metal parts so i gave everything a good rubdown with liquid bore butter.......since i hadn't taken the tirgger group apart i just let a clump of bore butter melt down in it.

7. is there a right way to put this baby back together?? i guess what i'm asking is for the correct sequence......i'm asking because it seamed awfull hard to get the bottom screw back in place that holds the grip....i'm afraid if i do it on a regular basis i could strip the screw or frame....any thoughts on this????

thanks in advance on any thoughts you may have....thanks....Dick

 

[Old Fuff]

You have a lot of questions and I'll try to get back, but for now ...

When reassembling the triggerguard and backstrap. Start all of the screws, but don't tighten them until all of the screws in either the trigger guard or backstrap are started. Do the trigger guard first (3 screws) and don't move the mainspring under the hammer until all of those 3 screws are in place and tightened. Then do the backstrap with the one-piece grips in place. Start the top two screws and then start the bottom one. The grips and strap will wiggle enough so you can get the last screw started. Then and only then tighten the three backstrap screws. Be sure you have screwdrivers that are properly ground to fit the different screws. This is not a case where one size will do all. Without the right screwdrivers you will soon ruin the screw heads.

 

[Chawbaccer]

The CCI caps might be too tight for your nipple, you might take the mipples off, chuck them in a drill and pollishe the part that the caps fit on, a file does the trick. Hard to say what nipples you have, you should be able to give the manufacture of the gun and get the right size. If you use grease on the cylinder, it seems to get on everything, might help with the rusting problem.

 

[mec]

The cci caps have thicker cups than the remingtons.
I suspect uberti nipples will fit you Colt Second Generation and you can probably find them either at VTI gunparts or Cimarron Arms online. A friend has outfitted his 51 Navy and Pocket police with Tresco Nipples. He finds that they provide very postive ignition and cured a hammer-blowback problem he had with those guns. They have a smaller apeture than the standard nipples. I cant find the source for these and don't know if they make them for the Dragoons or not.

 

[dickwholliday]

i sent one of my nipples to Dixie gunworks and promptly got an email back telling me which one to get.....it was the uberti one....i got them the other day and popped 12 or so caps without any problems.........

Another question....how about triple 7 in this pistol?????? How much???? What is deal about not much compression that i read about??? This pistol is only used for SASS cowboy stuff and the bigger the show the better but i wouldn't want to damage it or me for anything...thanks again for all the replys....Dick

 

[Hellgate]

Dick,
Resist the temptation to fill the chamber with 777 and seat the ball or you might just create a funny looking pepperbox or even hurt someone. Old Scout (CAS smith) has a Walker that someone shot 777 in and sent the barrel downrange. He's considered making it into a pepperbox. The gun will likely give at the wedge cutout in the cylinder pin and hopefully not blow the cylinder apart. I wouldn't do it. I only use 777 in my .357 Rossi as a BP sub. I shoot 44grs FFg in my Walkers. When I used 50grs FFFg I ruined two wedges in just one match (one for each gun). Luckily I didn't stretch the cylinder pin.

My Ubertis really like Remington#10 caps.

 

[JohnKSa]

So 777 isn't a good sub for BP? I thought that's what it was made for?

Do you think it would be ok in a Ruger Old Army?

 

[dickwholliday]

i see that Hodgdon shows 20-25 grains in most BP pistols....what would you think would be a safe but stiff load for the dragoon????....thanks for your thoughts....D I C K

 

[Hellgate]

777 is a great sub for BP. There are a few concerns:
It is more powderful than BP which means you can overload it and raise pressures to damaging levels. With BP or any of the other subs you can pretty much stuff the chambers full enough to barely seat the ball below the mouth and not exceed the design strength of the gun. A steel framed Remington is more forgiving than a Colt. A Ruger Old Army is more forgiving than a Remington. You could probably use 30grs 777 in the Dragoon but 777 doesn't BOOM like BP. It is more like a bulk powder that smokes. Even though the 777 would likely drive the ball faster, a 40-45gr charge of BP would be more impressive from a spectator's standpoint. I have heard of folks using 777 intheir Ruger Old Armies ar pretty stout doses but the extra smoke and recoil led them to tone the load down to a more comfortable level. I don't remember the charges used. 777 is super clean shooting just hotter than BP or other subs. I fully expect a fair number of Walkers & Dragoons to get shot loose with it by people who want to see what it is like to stoke them to the max. The reason the Walkers & Dragoons were so massive was because at the time steels were not that strong so they had to add metal to increase strength. By the 1860s Colt was able to scale the guns down with stronger steels for his 1860 Army.