Shotgun for trap/home defense
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herrwalther
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1 gun, 2 barrels. Personally I lean on Mossberg on this front because the barrels are a bit easier to change than Remington 870s. I can change out a Mossberg barrel in about 30 seconds. Remington takes a few more cuss words and time. In the end it depends on how your FIL feels about where the safety is and modifying a shotgun to suit a different need.
entropy
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1. Release bolt. 2. slide halfway back. 3. unscrew mag cap. 4. slide off barrel. 5. slide barrel in. 6. replace cap. Done. Way less than 30 seconds. The only real difference is the mag cap screw is captive to the end of the barrel on Mossbergs.
Talk him into a semi-auto then. I'm just not impressed with any current production pump guns. If someone is a gun guy and they know what they want and are willing to spend some time looking for an older used pump gun there are some options. Things may be different where you live, but the shelves are bare of decent pump guns here. I can't even find anything in stock on the normal websites like.
Shotguns For Sale - Buds Gun Shop
Hunting and Tactical Shotguns For Sale | Sportsman's Warehouse (sportsmans.com)
Cabela's Official Website - Hunting, Fishing, Camping, Shooting & Outdoor Gear | Cabela's (cabelas.com)
or
Shotguns » Whittaker Country (whittakerguns.com)
Other than tactical pump guns or cheap imported guns. Mostly from Turkey. While I'd like to recommend an 870, Browning BPS, or Benelli, there are simply none to be found. I see a few Winchester 1300's, but those are imported now with the Winchester name stamped on them. No relation at all to previous Winchester guns. And prices on used guns are crazy high.
There are some options available for decent quality semi-auto shotguns at around $1000 or less that would be an even better trap gun than a pump. Not ideal as a home defense gun like a short barreled riot type shotgun, but useable. And a lot of these simply aren't that much more expensive than a pump. You used to be able to get a decent pump gun for $250. Today it'll be closer to $500 for a cheap one. A good quality pump with decent wood is now closing in on $1000.
The only decent pump I could find that was actually in stock. And it wouldn't be a great choice for shooting clays. Most people who are not "gun guys" will master a semi-auto a lot easier than a pump. I recently picked up a used Benelli Nova at a good price. The non "gun guy" bought a pump to shoot clays with. He shot one round, returned the gun and traded it for a new semi. The gun had one box of shells through it and I got it $100 less than a new one. And there were no new ones to be found.
Benelli SuperNova Pump Shotgun | Sportsman's Warehouse (sportsmans.com)
A good choice. I know several people who are extremely happy with this gun.
Beretta A300 Ultima Black 12 Gauge 3in Semi Automatic Shotgun | Sportsman's Warehouse (sportsmans.com)
What I use. Well I use an older version, the M1, this is the updated M2.
Benelli M2 Field Semi-Auto Shotgun | Sportsman's Warehouse (sportsmans.com)
Jim Watson
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1. Hang around the trap club and buy an 870 TC from somebody who is moving up or aging out.
2. Buy riot or slug barrel.
2. Buy riot or slug barrel.
I earlier recommended the 870. An example of my recent luck was an "original" Express with the detent magazine cap and good wood (birch) for $279 followed a few days later by a 20" rifled slug barrel for $100. Someone mentioned the hard recoil pad. True, but I put a super cell pad on it in no more than fifteen minutes. Now I have just what was wanted, total outlay of way less than the msrp of a new rough Express. My use will be a loaner for youth team, turkey, and deer camp backup to my Savage 220.
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I dont have any young ones in the house anymore, plus bot of them are trained and carry. So I have no worrys about having it chambered. After all it if for home defense.
Im not too sure about the 2 barrels idea, seem a little bit. um... non essential in the case of this entire post and its intended use.
I also agree with @entropy... an 870 is a 30 second barrel removal also.. But i still se no need to potentially change one in any defense scenario.
Im not too sure about the 2 barrels idea, seem a little bit. um... non essential in the case of this entire post and its intended use.
I also agree with @entropy... an 870 is a 30 second barrel removal also.. But i still se no need to potentially change one in any defense scenario.
entropy
Member
Well....shooting Trap with an 18 or 20" barrel is frustrating, and 30" barrels are unwieldy in halls and doorways.
yeah I guess i forgot about the trap idea, two barrels would be a decent idea, however if he shoots trap on day and forgets to swap barrels and gets broke into, then still in same boat. I agree with the OP, he needs 2 guns. (Dont we al)
Then you have loaded ammo issues as well.
Everyone that uses a shotgun, what ammo you prefer, and why?
entropy
Member
For Trap 1 oz of 7 1/2 shot at 1100-1200 fps.
For HD, I have a PDX1 Slug & buck in the chamber, with Remington 0 buck (got a deal on a bunch of it, 00 will work just fine) and PDX1 alternating.
00 Buck is just fine. Measure your farthest expected shot for HD, and test your HD ammo at that distance. A rough guide is usually 1" wider pattern per yard. 7 yards? 7" pattern.
For HD, I have a PDX1 Slug & buck in the chamber, with Remington 0 buck (got a deal on a bunch of it, 00 will work just fine) and PDX1 alternating.
00 Buck is just fine. Measure your farthest expected shot for HD, and test your HD ammo at that distance. A rough guide is usually 1" wider pattern per yard. 7 yards? 7" pattern.
For HD, 2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 buckshot, because it's a proven one shot fight ender.
For clay anything, 1 1/8 oz of 71/2 or 8, because it works.
For game, it depends.
HD load for me and mine, 1 1/4 oz of BB. Not the steel Daisy stuff. Longest distance in my house/garage would be 50'. I exploded a mallard drake at 20 yards with that load.
Of course, the last two in the mag are 00 buck and a Foster slug. Six plus two.
Of course, the last two in the mag are 00 buck and a Foster slug. Six plus two.
Jack Ryan
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Sounds to me like he is telling you pretty clearly, he wants a Remington 870 Wing Master. IF YOU ARE SURE HE is telling you he wants a pump and it is REALLY YOU telling him he wants a pump.
I'll tell you BOTH what he REALLY WANTS is to buy a couple boxes of 12 gauge target loads and take them with you to watch people shoot at a trap and skeet club one afternoon BEFORE YOU TALK HIM IN TO BUYING ANY THING. That is what he really WANTS if he knows it or not.
In about ten minutes you'll learn why you don't want any of that cheap ass bargain basement black plastic junk and you will see it for your self.
John Joseph
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By all means go for the Wing Master if he's got the $$. Worth every penny.
To answer shortly, I also think a Wingmaster with a long and a short barrel would satisfy the requirements.
Yet, now that I have tried a side by side, I just don't get why people want to shoot trap with a pump. I did it because it was all I had and will do it again to stay acquainted with the said pump, but it feels better (recoil apart) with the side by side. So much that I bought a twelve I haven't shot yet after I tried my 20. Can't wait to get it from the gunsmith (clean, inspect and grease action + new recoil pad & spacer).
For HD, the short barrel pump makes sense, but is my 18" one really that much shorter and more manageable than a 26" side-by-side (or over and under if you prefer them)?
How many 00 buck shots does it take to feel adequately protected? Is the idea of contemplating reloading a double under stress stupid?
I guess if I was to try something like a BT-99 (or better, I don't know that field well), I would understand even more the idea of the right tool for the right job.
I don't have a HD gun because I don't need it, but I go back to the short pump in inventory when I think about stuff like the riots in other places ; in that context, I would prefer a double to nothing, but a pump to a double.
As for semis, they usually are longer. I guess some models allow to switch between short or long barrel, but I don't know any, and I fear it would be more complicated. They shoot fast, don't get short stroked and almost always hold more than two.
Yet, now that I have tried a side by side, I just don't get why people want to shoot trap with a pump. I did it because it was all I had and will do it again to stay acquainted with the said pump, but it feels better (recoil apart) with the side by side. So much that I bought a twelve I haven't shot yet after I tried my 20. Can't wait to get it from the gunsmith (clean, inspect and grease action + new recoil pad & spacer).
For HD, the short barrel pump makes sense, but is my 18" one really that much shorter and more manageable than a 26" side-by-side (or over and under if you prefer them)?
How many 00 buck shots does it take to feel adequately protected? Is the idea of contemplating reloading a double under stress stupid?
I guess if I was to try something like a BT-99 (or better, I don't know that field well), I would understand even more the idea of the right tool for the right job.
I don't have a HD gun because I don't need it, but I go back to the short pump in inventory when I think about stuff like the riots in other places ; in that context, I would prefer a double to nothing, but a pump to a double.
As for semis, they usually are longer. I guess some models allow to switch between short or long barrel, but I don't know any, and I fear it would be more complicated. They shoot fast, don't get short stroked and almost always hold more than two.
Changing barrels on most semi-auto shotguns is basically the same procedure as changing barrels on a pump gun.
herrwalther
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Most of my 870s had a barrel clamp to the magazine tube extension. Not much harder to deal with, but noticeable. When it comes to the fast swapping barrels, I liked Mossbergs integration better. Just personal preference.
Jack Ryan
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Last thing in the OP, "Price is not a deciding factor. Thanks."
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