Shotgun Sensibility

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sm

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Probably dropped more shells than some will ever shoot in a lifetime - Mentor

HBR elbowed me into doing this...

All right - show of hands here.

How many you folks with shotguns are shooters?

I mean actual shotgunners that appreciate fine shotguns, collect fine examples, preserve historical guns (family heirlooms, military , etc) competitiors, hunters and whatnot?

How many are have no idea what a shotgun is and want to learn?

How many sitting on the fence and not sure about this Shotgun stuff and interested in reading and learning?

Got any folks admit all they know about shotguns come from a book, movie, video games?

How about anyone that all you know about a shotgun comes from internet websites, including gun forums, or forums dealing with cars, trucks, bikes (pedal or motor), RV, Tractors airplanes, porn, political, music video games, computers , how to live off the land or got internt access from jail or mental institution?

Oh hell, see I told you HBR. *sigh*

All right dag-nabbit!

I got a real good idea who the Shotgunners are.

Gots ideas on what folks are here to learn , and those sitting on the fence too - but ya'll welcome, and I mean it - to raise hands and continue to ask questions, and keep using the PM feature like you been doing with me, and others.

You in the jail, you can stay, I mean maybe you can learn something useful and pass onto to family and do some kind of good...

All right gonna get me cup of coffee and lay some stuff out.

Well I do have to ask:

Anyone here admit just being here to stir up trouble for THR - and in doing so just like to drive some of us members, or THR Staff, nuts just for fun of it?

HBR and I figured as much. *sigh*
 
Shotguns are Firearms. Just wanted to toss that in just in case some did not know, or forgot...needed reminding...

Being as this here THR is a gun forum, same as TFL and other sister sites. This means Responsible Firearm Ownership.

For the Cheap Seats that means - We take this Shotgunning Business damn serious.

We may joke, tease, poke fun - but some of us know each other real well. We communicate off forum.

See part of this this Repsonsible Firearm Ownership bit means - Educating Folks Right.

We call it passing it forward.
 
No you can't post a reply yet - I ain't done yet.

I'm supposesd to leave that first line up there - because 1) it is funny, 2) I got elbowed again. :)

--

Pay Attention here -

1. You folks in the Cheap Seats put down the Curb Feelers and Fuzzy Dice for bolting onto a shotgun - you ain't got.

2. If you do not have a shotgun :


-DO NOT BUY A FRIGGIN' SHOTGUN -


You ain't to that point yet - Folks falling under catagory 1 - ya'll got some unlearning to do.
Folks falling into #2 - Ya'll already got bonus points and ahead of the bunch in catagory 1.

The way this plays out is:

A tool is only as good as the user of said tool.

One has to learn the correct basic fundamentals of any tool

The Brain has to learn first - the brain is the only tool that is [strike] supposed to be [/strike] with you 24/7/365



The Four Rules of Gun Safety

These are, as far as I can tell, the official Col. Jeff Cooper Four Rules:

1. All guns are always loaded (until you establish whether they are or not).
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. Keep your gun pointed in a safe direction at all times: on the range, at home, loading, or unloading.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (and you are ready to shoot).
4. Be sure of your target. Know what it is, what is in line with it and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you haven't positively identified.



STOP RIGHT HERE!

You have to understand them rules.

If you refuse to learn and abide by them - Get the hell off of THR any other Gun Forum such as TFL or sister site, and stay as far away from any Firearm and Folks that do understand and practice them rules.
Ya'll just too plumb scary and nuts to be around - period.


Okay now that them folks are gone...

For the rest of you, do not worry so much about memorizing exactly the words of
rules.
What is important is to Understand Them, and Practice them.

Find someone you trust and you are comfortable with that knows and practices these rules to go over them with you. They will be glad to do so.

I do not care how young you are , or male or female - This is what Responsible Firearm Owners do.

WE do this with Kids all the time - kids whom read these forums with us.

---

Now we move onto how to get the Brain Trained about this shotgunning business.


- Search Function.

-Sticky at the Top under Dave Mc

Yes this means you will be directed to TFL for some archived posts. If you pay attention while at TFL 1).you are going to see a lot of the same folks at TFL here on THR 2) they feel the same way about matters as we do. 3) feel free to peruse TFL and use the search function as well.

- Books:

Shotgunning : The Art & Science - Bob Brister.

Get this book - better yet get two copies. This book answers most questions asked in shotgun forum. New folks learn a lot - seasoned shooters keep reading it.

The Old Man And The Boy
- Robert Ruark

This book shares a whole a lot more than about shotguns. It shares about ethics, principles about life.

There is more to responsible firearm ownership than guns me.

Score Better At Skeet - Fred Misseldine
Score Better At Trap - Fred Missledine

Misseldine reiterates and re-enforces Brister's Book. Missledine also takes each station, and not only shows one how to hit each station - he also shows you why you miss a station.

One has to have the correct basic fundamentals of SAFETY, how to properly load, unload a firearm, understand Gun Fit, stance, foot positioning, aquiring a target, swing, follow thru...etc...etc.

Shooting is Correct Basic Fundamentals Repeated and Improved upon. One NEVER stops learning, using, or improving on Correct Basic Fundamentals

These Correct Basic Fundamentals are adaptive to , used in, and allows one to transition to various Shotgunning Tasks. Be it Home Defense, Trap, Skeet, Five Stand, Sporting Clays, Columbaire, Live Pigeons, 3 Gun, Cowboy Action, Bird hunting, Deer Hunting, Turkey Hunting ...anything else one can think of.
 
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Impatient bunch ain't cha ya'l?

Supposed to leave that line too...

--

Okay you have determined which eye is dominant and have a BB gun and Them Ping Pong Balls right?

And just why not?

Whaddya mean you have no idea of what I am talking about?

I said get Brister's Book didn't I ? Well when you get, read it, and get up to speed.

More Suggestions-

-Go here : http://www.corneredcat.com/ read, learn and take more notes.

Yes I know it is a ladies site! I don't care if you are a guy and stand to pee - read the damn site anyway.

Ladies will learn a lot of stuff naturally, and kids will too.
Men will if they quit thinking with the little head and pay attention.

Be respectful of Kathy, the lady that owns and does that site - she is a Well Respected Lady here on THR, TFL and other sites. She teaches, She ROs, writes for publications.

Oh, she happens to be a Moderator here and if you are not nice to her I will suggest she launder your posts with pink underwear - That or let one her boys toss a lizard in your pants pocket first-so the rest of us can make fun of you.

-Beef Jerky.
Yeah, you have to have sticks of this in your pocket. Makes one a better shooter.

-Peppermint
For spoiling dogs

Go here : http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/

Pay attention, oh he too is a moderator, I'll tell him to use the biggest needle in your butt for giving you a shot if you show disrespect. This is actually a better deal than what he will to you himself if you disrespect him.

In regard to serious shotguns I want you to read this:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/09/home-defense-shotguns.html


--

Attend a safety class, be it a NRA, one a club does, or even at the kitchen table of a trusted , qualified person YOU are comfortable with that has the abilty to instruct and share.

Getting instructions.

-Students must feel comfortable and safe with the person(s) giving them lessons, instructing and assisting them as they assist the ladies.

-Instructors must be ALWAYS make sure the student KNOWS for a fact their safety is a priority.

Ladies make better students.
Ladies do better and are advised to get instructions by other ladies.
Or
A Male that has earned the trust of ladies to assist in teaching ladies.
Most of these guys, will have ladies to assist them.

--Guys - DO NOT teach your wife, your girlfriend how to shoot a shotgun. --

Applies to firearm in general. Let them go out with the ladies that invited them out to the range. Ladies can better address Ladies in regard to questions they have and in areas more specific like gun fit.

Shut up, offer extra cash for lunch, wish them a good time, and to have fun, vacuum the carpet , do a load of laundry, bathe the dog...and if you cannot cook, then get something at the take-out so she won't have to cook when she gets back.

Oh , be real damn sweet of you to have some of that chocolate she likes chillin' in the Fridge too. I recommend York Peppermint Patties.
Why? Because I am a bit selfish in sharing my bite-size Reese's is why.

Guys-
Ya'll can learn a LOT from Ladies that are accomplished shooters.

Kids- Some of you are not just big enough to hold and shoot a shotgun all by yourself. You know this. You are human beings too. Just not as big as some of us.

That BB Gun and learning as Mr. Brister shares will help you greatly. I really care about you kids, and I have no problem assisting you in holding shotgun and just shooting a primer fired hull from a single shot shotgun. I want you to know how to use all those Four Rules of Safety using a BBGun, and that single shot shotgun. How that shotgun opens, closes fires , makes a noise - everything.

You can assist me in loading that same single shot shotgun in TEACHING ME the Four Rules of Safety and TEACH ME how to load, fire, unload and everything too, in fact, I think it is a great idea for YOU to pull the trigger for me, while I hold the gun.

--

Ladies, Kids ,Gents.

Instructors are going to have a variety of guns for you to view, handle, learn how they work. Taken apart to show how the insides are, back together to learn where safeties are, how to open, all the controls - how they work.

Shotgun shells and explaining various things about Safety, and ammo choices. Having read Brister, or having been read to Brister, you have a greater understanding about ammo going into this lesson, just neat to actually handle the various shells and compare.

Gun fit is going to encompass a lot of things. Again, let the ladies assist ladies, or those men with experience doing so with another lady to assist.

In handling a shotgun one tends to "scrunch" around to the gun. This gives one a FALSE sense that gun "fits them".
IN actual use, there is not time to scrunch, and folks get whacked, bruised, low self esteem from missing and getting hurt. That gun that "fit" at the gun store ,or just handling - really did not fit you.

Instructors will work with you on gun fit, and which guns fit you best. Actually firing these varieties to let you learn, and also to better get a gun that fits YOU.

When one shoots a gun that fits them - this is when one truly understands the old saw : A shotgun is an extension of the shooter.

Shotguns are pointed - not aimed.

When a clay target on a skeet field doing 55 mph comes out...
Quail Explodes at your feet...
Doves turns on afterburners, dipping, diving...
Deer runs into a clearing...
Two legged varmit is a threat...

The Ability to have that "Extension of YOU" , smoothly, quickly get mounted to face - is what all these lessons I am sharing are about.


NOW You are better prepared to buy a shotgun.

You have taken the responsibilty and have earned , and own , Correct Basic Fundamentals.

Brain is trained, Safety, Gun Fit, Lessons, ...

You can now take the measurements of the gun that fits, the action type, and everything else and be a informed buyer. Get the folks that assisted you to further assist in purchase, a used gun is a new gun gun fired at least once.

Let these folks assist in checking out the gun for things you are familar with yet, in tweaking the fit, patterning, slugs groups...etc.

Remember - Shooting is Correct Basic Fundamentals Repeated and Built Upon.

Never learn with a crutch - if the crutch is removed you will fall.

I teach without beads for instance. Top Shooters with Expensive Custom Target guns often DO NOT have any beads on a shotgun.

Shotguns are pointed - not aimed, gun fit, extension of shooter...

Hey, if one of these folks that learned to shoot / does shoot a shotgun without beads is shooting one with beads, and bead comes off...so what? They did not learn with a crutch remember?



Correct Basic Fundamentals
One thing being : Smooth mounting of gun to face.

Following the Rules of Dryfire Practice , start with 10 Correct mounting of gun to face each day. This is best of course with a gun that fits.

Kids, ladies, guys too, this can be done with that Red Ryder BB Gun.

Work up to 25 each day focus on Safety and correct basic fundamentals as instructor shared in mounting gun to face, stanc, posititoning...everything the Instructor shared, you read by Brister, and Missedine.

Dry Fire Repetitions makes one a better shooter - period.

Some folks do 100 a day, and serious Competitiors will do 200- 500 a day.

Quality Trigger time does not mean one actually fires live ammo. Quality means repetiton of correct basic fundamentals - live or no ammo.

I have more later on perhaps.


Steve
 
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Steve, were you expecting a crowd at 3am?:)
I've only been shooting shotguns for about 4 decades, still learning.
I have Grandpa's single 12 (I'd pay good money if I could find out who purloined his '97 at the time of his passing), Dad's vintage model 37 and his belgian "sweet 16", and a few other assorted pumps, doubles, and auto's. HD and deer hunting is an 870. Most of my shooting these days is thru the Beretta 390 with some thru the SX2. For some reason the fit on these 2 is identical and I can switch off with no readjustment to the internal ballistic computer.
Like I said, I'm still learning.
(Sitting quietly at the back of the room.)
 
I love this forum, this is my favorite place on teh net (specificially the shotguns forum)
But seriously, can we learn to use the search function?
sometimes I see the same exact post three times on the first page.

When i joined THR, I had been reading for a month and I barely posted for the first year or so and tried to read the knowledge that others had. I've even got my wife reading it all now.
I still don't post all that much, unless I can add some value (or give SM a hard time:evil: )

But lately, it's like the same post over and over again, and I really do think others are beginning to feel the same way because i notice they die out quickly even with lots of knowlege on this board. And being this is the high road, I'm too kind to post something like "use the search function", but my fuse is getting short.

BTW, I love shotguns, i love shooting, i love shooting shotguns.
 
"Anyone here admit just being here to stir up trouble"

Not me. okie.gif

Lookie here, for the shotgunner who can't decide which gauge to shoot.

"Browning Midas Custom Shop Four Bbl. Set, 12-20-28-.410ga., 28" bbls. Briley choke tubes" - $20k

976574034-1.jpg


www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976574034.htm
 
*eloquent shrug*

Spent yesterday afternoon at the range with Franchis #1 and #3 and two fifty-cal ammo cans of mixed shells (all the odds and ends collected over the last year plus.)

I mainly wanted to zero (slugs) and pattern both shotguns, as well as checking one barrel for a choke tube that gets loose under fire. Not cool, as I found out last weekend. Bonus, someone was nice enough to leave two heavy steel IPSC sillouette targets out, which makes for some fun shooting. :D

Franchi #1 is dead on with Wolf slugs at 25 yards. I was consistantly hitting an 8" paper plate in under a second at that distance - best time of 0.80s from low ready. Franchi #3 (which hasn't had the stock fitted or the foam cheekpad applied) shoots about 6" high at the same distance.

Funny aside - Franchi #1 has a cap-head machine screw in place of a bead. I've been meaning to replace it, but it's working so well that I think I'll just leave it.

Both guns pattern right at point of aim. The Colonial Modified choke tube in Franchi #3 seems to stay pretty tight. Speed loading still needs work - best time was 5.88 seconds for Bang-4-Bang*.

Good practice session, all in all. Need to get another case or two of #7.5 this week.

Okay, so I shoot. On occasion, I shoot a lot. But I don't do much in the way of clay games, no wingshooting, and have only a polite interest in Perrazis and Kreighoffs and cased Model 12s. I do have a thing for Beven Grams-tuned Benelli M2s, though.

Feel any better, sm? :D

- Chris

* - Bang-4-Bang is my name for a popular shotgun drill. Start with one round in the chamber, one in the magazine, safety on, modified port arms. Suitable target is about fifteen yards out. On the beep, fire one round on the target, speedload four rounds into the magazine, and fire one more round on the target. 6-7 seconds is a good starting par time, anything under 4 is very good indeed.
 
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