Shotgun to rifle barrel length?

[WestKentucky]

I have decided that I AM making a trade this afternoon for a UTAS XTR12 which is billed as a DPMS ar10 pattern lower with a 12ga shotgun upper. Since I plan to keep the shotgun portion and add a rifle upper at some time later, would I legally have to maintain the 18” minimum length for a shotgun, or could I (I won’t, this is purely hypothetical) buy a 16” rifle upper? It seems as though the gun could only be configured as a rifle or a shotgun and would never be configured as a SBS, but in a purely legal point would a 16” rifle barrel be afoul of NFA law by being a SBS?

 

[jrmiddleton425]

If you put the rifle barrel on it it becomes a rifle, per this definition:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-rifle#:~:text=The term “Rifle” means a,single pull of the trigger.

On the other hand, I do see your problem here, because it started as a shotgun. So ultimately your question is: is this a "weapon made from a shotgun?"

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/shotgun-firearm-subject-nfa#:~:text=The NFA defines shotgun, in,ball shot) or a single

My advice to you is to contact BATFE, and they will tell you if they want it registered.

 

[748]

That might get its own technical advisory.

 

[dogtown tom]

I have decided that I AM making a trade this afternoon for a UTAS XTR12 which is billed as a DPMS ar10 pattern lower with a 12ga shotgun upper. Since I plan to keep the shotgun portion and add a rifle upper at some time later, would I legally have to maintain the 18” minimum length for a shotgun, or could I (I won’t, this is purely hypothetical) buy a 16” rifle upper? It seems as though the gun could only be configured as a rifle or a shotgun and would never be configured as a SBS, but in a purely legal point would a 16” rifle barrel be afoul of NFA law by being a SBS?

No, using a shotgun receiver to "make" a Title I rifle just means you add an upper with 16" barrel. That it was originally an upper with 18" shotgun barrel is immaterial.

 

[WestKentucky]

It’s hard to imagine that this hasn’t come up with the NEF/H&R guns being around for so long, not to mention the Rossi matched pair guns. I figured somebody would have posted a letter of interpretation or some other publication by now. Those old singles are small and a hacksaw makes them even smaller. I’m sure somebody has chopped to legal minimum... but what is legal minimum? 16 or 18?

 

[dogtown tom]

So ultimately your question is: is this a "weapon made from a shotgun?".....

It would be a "weapon made from a shotgun", but not an NFA firearm, because it doesn't meet the definition of any NFA firearm.

 

[dogtown tom]

It’s hard to imagine that this hasn’t come up with the NEF/H&R guns being around for so long, not to mention the Rossi matched pair guns. I figured somebody would have posted a letter of interpretation or some other publication by now. Those old singles are small and a hacksaw makes them even smaller. I’m sure somebody has chopped to legal minimum... but what is legal minimum? 16 or 18?

It's been pretty well known since 1934 how rifles, shotguns and NFA firearms are defined: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...48e72362&mc=true&node=se27.3.478_111&rgn=div8

 

[bearcreek]

It's been pretty well known since 1934 how rifles, shotguns and NFA firearms are defined: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...48e72362&mc=true&node=se27.3.478_111&rgn=div8

Those waters have been muddied a bit since 1934. Shotguns with rifled barrels, for example, clearly don't meet the definition of "shotgun" in that document.

 

[dogtown tom]

Those waters have been muddied a bit since 1934. Shotguns with rifled barrels, for example, clearly don't meet the definition of "shotgun" in that document.

Not really, read the last line of the definition of Destructive Device.......... "or any other device which the Director finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes". Shotguns with rifled barrels are one that "the Director" currently says are okey dokey. This is why the Streetsweeper isn't Title I.

 

[WestKentucky]

It's been pretty well known since 1934 how rifles, shotguns and NFA firearms are defined: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...48e72362&mc=true&node=se27.3.478_111&rgn=div8

How an NFA item is defined is pretty clear in its original state, or its original NFA state. Not so clear when transitioning from one to another. Is it a rifle, a weapon made from a shotgun, or a shotgun with a rifled barrel attached. For things like bolt action rifles that are very difficult to swap around it’s not a big deal, like some of the .410 guns made from old military rifles, once it’s a shotgun it pretty well stays a shotgun unless major work is done. Shotguns with swappable barrels though can be whatever you want them to be within a couple minutes so it’s not nearly as clean anymore. Matters are compounded when there are multiple barrels that make it fit multiple categories.

 

[dogtown tom]

How an NFA item is defined is pretty clear in its original state, or its original NFA state. Not so clear when transitioning from one to another.....

Again, its VERY CLEAR. It either meets the definition or it doesn't. ATF said decades ago that an SBR, no longer in SBR configuration is not an SBR, same with an SBS.

 

[GAF]

If in doubt make the upper one with an 18 or 20 inch barrel.