Shots fired at police, firefighters in Maplewood (near St Louis)

[SASD209]

"When I lived in NYC it was common practice for EMTs to wear bullet resistant vests in the high crime areas."
__________________


I did as an EMT in CT's largest city. RIP to the FF killed, good luck and speedy recovery to the Officers wounded.

SASD209

 

[divemedic]

We can expect some kneejerk reactions in the fire/ems industry over this. We will get some kind of training, and the chiefs will tell us they took care of it.

 

[Technosavant]

We can expect some kneejerk reactions in the fire/ems industry over this. We will get some kind of training, and the chiefs will tell us they took care of it.

I'm not sure what kind of training can prepare EMTs and firefighters for being baited and shot at. There's just no way to defend against it.

 

[divemedic]

That won't matter. Every time some major event happens, the FedGov steps in and mandates more training for emergency responders.

In the 80's, it was HazMat. In the 90's, it became Technical rescue. In 2001, it became terrorism awareness. The current FedGov mandated fad is NIMS and the IS series of classes. We await the next one.

NIMS is what happens when the FedGov takes a good idea (The Incident Command System) and turns it into a bloated bureaucratic nightmare that takes hundreds of hours to learn, and thousands more to master.

 

[ilbob]

We can expect some kneejerk reactions in the fire/ems industry over this. We will get some kind of training, and the chiefs will tell us they took care of it.

Do you have a better idea?

 

[montangard]

It seems the perp read 'The Man Who Cried I Am', tactics used are from the The King Alfred Plan.
Urban dwellers start a fire distraction, Firemen arrive and become targets, police respond and get caught up in cross fire. Old plan for new times.

 

[hobgob]

I think the most likely motive is drugs. The car or house or both prolly had something the BG didnt want the police to find so maybe he figured the longer the fire burns the less likely they will be able to tell what he was hiding.

 

[divemedic]

Do you have a better idea?

Everything that happens is not an excuse to throw money around. This training accomplishes nothing except raising taxes and helping contractors make money. Trust me, I am one of those contractors as a second job.

Someone will come up with a class that he will sell to the chiefs, who will pay money to have the guys on the pointy end of the stick attend these classes. These classes will take time away from real training that actually does some good.

The chiefs, mostly political appointees who have not ever run a call, or have not run a call in 10 years or more, will waste more taxpayer money to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Any of you firefighters who had to waste time on the "Denver Drill" will know what I mean.

 

[Technosavant]

I think the most likely motive is drugs. The car or house or both prolly had something the BG didnt want the police to find so maybe he figured the longer the fire burns the less likely they will be able to tell what he was hiding.

If he had something in his truck he didn't want the police to find, then he would not likely have left it in the truck overnight (this whole thing started at about 5:45 or so in the morning), and I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have parked said truck in his neighbor's driveway.

Whatever this guy might have been into, drugs has yet to come up; with what has been said about the guy in the media (and that isn't much), he seems to have been the creepy neighbor, not the local druggie.

 

[FFMedic]

Perhaps the deck gun on the engine needs to shoot more than just water? No? I'm just kidding or course.

This is sad, crazy and mostly unexpected but honestly when your duty is to respond to all reported emergencies what can you expect? Every so often we lose someone and without hindsight if could never realisticly be prevented without destroying our ability to do our job.

I don't want to die on the job, so I buckle up, don't smoke, excercise and double double check my PPE. I'm always mindful of scene safety but a trap is a trap.

FFMedic

 

[Zwetschgen]

I don't think it was a meth lab, unless it was a very small lab. Usually, around the Independence, MO area, the houses are not much more than a foundation any more. Also, it is nice to see the Highway Patrol Officer keeping his finger off the trigger and alert, too often do we see people breaking common firearm rules.

 

[ny32182]

Everything that happens is not an excuse to throw money around. This training accomplishes nothing except raising taxes and helping contractors make money. Trust me, I am one of those contractors as a second job.

Someone will come up with a class that he will sell to the chiefs, who will pay money to have the guys on the pointy end of the stick attend these classes. These classes will take time away from real training that actually does some good.

The chiefs, mostly political appointees who have not ever run a call, or have not run a call in 10 years or more, will waste more taxpayer money to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Any of you firefighters who had to waste time on the "Denver Drill" will know what I mean.

I certainly see what divemedic is saying... is an innocent fireman getting killed in this manner a tragedy? Of course. But how often does this *really* happen? Its probably national news each and every time. Its a freak, isolated, unforseeable occurance. What kind of reasonable training would *possibly* have prevented this? Are firemen going to show up and set up an armed perimeter, secure the area and scan the rooftops on every call? Of course not. Yet that is the only thing that could have prevented this.

I'd venture that a whole lot more firemen get killed in duty-related tragedys like collapsing buildings, and that if there is futher training budget available, it would be best used to increase the level of training with regard to the specific dangerous job duties of firemen.

 

[yokel]

Ruger on the scene!

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/....jpg?x=400&y=265&sig=RFSxE6HZNWoDadBB0Ze6tg--

 

[HB]

WWasn't drugs. The guy went off the deep end, lit a fire to create some targets and went to town. It is truly a terrible scene.

I drove by there toda. Lots of cops still on the scene and the street is blocked off. The house is burnt to the ground so there is no way the guy got out, which I assume was his goal.

HB

 

[Caimlas]

What does Israel do for situations like this? I'm sure this kind of thing happens over there more often than not. Do they arm their firefighters, or have armed escorts for their firefighters?

 

[Eric F]

Do they arm their firefighters, or have armed escorts for their firefighters?

No that would be ESU in NY city...kinda.


Israel pots a tank in the front yard and lets a few rounds go. Blows the fire out and well you can figure what happens to the shooter.......ok not really. I really dont know.

 

[Eleven Mike]

WWasn't drugs. The guy went off the deep end, lit a fire to create some targets and went to town. It is truly a terrible scene.

Yeah, that appears to be the case. Fired his truck in a good kill zone, killed a firefighter, shot some other folks, then set fire to his house and offed himself in his basement. Old white dude, no criminal record, history of avoiding contact with others, even family members.

From the picture I saw in the paper, the gun they pulled out of basement was a bolt-action rifle.

 

[Drgong]

sorry to hear about the firefighter...

Congrats on the trigger discipline by the cop...

I know of a case in NC where a kid was playing with fireworks and it blew up in in hand, and he was sitting in the street crying, and the hoodlums decided that the EMT and cops would make good targets for fireworks. so the EMTs and cops had to deal with folks firing up to 1 inch mortar fireworks at them....

all the while while one of their kin was still sobbing since the tip of his finger had been mangled.

 

[divemedic]

We (in my department) occasionally get shot at, although I personally never have been. I have had a knife pulled on me, I have been attacked a couple of times with bare hands, feet, clubs, that sort of thing, but no guns.

 

[clarence222]

Disgusting

Truly disgusting

I have a deep respect for anyone willing to go into a burning building to rescue us civillians. Ive been in brun buildings as training for work under controlled situations, we had a walk through before the hay was set on fire and let me tell you it was still w=one of the most nerve racking things I have ever done. That being said I think anyone who would willingly interfere with fire fighters or any other first responders should be shot on sight