Shotshell Reloading

[jwrowland77]

Well, I've been reloading pistol and rifle for going on 2 years now and was contemplating branching out and reloading for my 12ga and my daughters .410.

What's a good manual to grab? I noticed several out there. I was looking at the Lyman.

I assume it would advisable to get the manual first before buying the components that I'm going to use, since everything I've read to date, you use exactly what the recipe calls for in the manual.

I was looking at the Lee shotshell loader to buy as my press or should I go with MEC?

Any advice/guidance is greatly appreciated.

 

[John3921]

Don't get the lee. Get a couple of MECS to start with - at least for the .410.

You will have a hard time saving money on 12 gauge target loads. I think you can save on specialty loads - like buckshot or slugs. But target loads not so much unless you can find a really good deal on shot. At $45/bag cabelas pricing it's going to cost about $5.00/box to load 1 oz loads.

The .410 you can save money if you shoot enough - but use Win AAHS hulls - don't bother with any other hulls unless you get them free. Then they are a load once and throw away. Some folks do ok with Rem STS hulls - but the AA's cost the same and are much better.

Lyman manual is a good start. There is a lot of information on shotgunworlds reloading forum also.

 

[jwrowland77]

I really wasn't looking to save any money on shotshell reloading. Mainly looking to load shotshell, to help reduce the kick for my wife who wants to learn to shot my 12ga and help my daughter shoot her .410. I save enough shooting my 7mm Rem Mag, .308 and .380 auto, that shotshell is just gonna be because I enjoy reloading.

Are shotshells like metallic where you can reuse the hulls several times over?

 

[GarySTL]

In general you can reuse hulls until the crimp starts to split or the base wad comes loose. The AA and other first rate hulls are one piece so the wad separating isn't an issue. I reuse my AA hulls until they really look bad or start to split. I've been loading 1oz loads with Titewad powder and have just started loading 3/4 oz loads to save a little on shot costs. I only shoot clays and skeet so we'll see how they work.

 

[USSR]

jwrowland77,

Definitely go with the MEC. Pick up some once-fired Winchester or Remington hulls, as you can find load data that use the same wads and charges for either hull. While I have a Lyman Shotshell manual at home, I normally check out the online reloading info sites available from the powder manufacturers.

Don

 

[John3921]

The new (10 years or so) AAHS hulls are 2 piece. They have a separate basewad. There is a lot of discussion about if they come loose or not. As near as I can tell early versions of the AAHS hulls had issues with loose basewads. Later versions not so much.

in 12 and 20 gauge the Remington STS/Premier is the best hull, AAHS are ok. Then the Rem gunclubs - essentially the same as the premier - but with a steel base.

Premier/sts/aahs/gunclubs maybe 8-10 reloads. Rios, estates, etc (commonly called eurotrash hulls) use once and leave 'em lay.

loose basewads are an issue. There is a remote possibility the basewad could actually be ejected and lodge in the bbl. The shot will feel fine - the next shot however is a blown bbl. It's the risk you take using hulls like the rios/fios/estates etc.

 

[John3921]

Where shotshell loading differs from metallic is that there are no 'pressure signs' you're either good - or you're not. SAAMI max pressure for the 12 gauge is 11,500 psi. Most of us try to load with some margin on that number - i.e. look for loads in the 10,000 psi range.

You do not get to substitute components. If the recipe calls for a certain wad or primer - you have to use that wad (or a clone) and that primer. When in doubt email the tech services folks at the powder co. and ask about a specific substitution. I sub Fio primers for rem or win primers in my target loads - but I keep a pretty good margin on pressure and I wrote alliant and asked specifically on at least one of my loads to be sure.

 

[jwrowland77]

Oh ok cool. I'll have to definitely keep that in mind. When in doubt, email.

I'll probably try and pick up a manual tonight, and go from there. I have a 4lb of Universal and a 8lb of Titegroup on hand already, which should get me going for the 12ga. I might pick up a pound of H110 for my daughters 410.

I'll have to look up what I normally shoot to see what oz shot I normally shoot. I think off the top of my head it 7/8oz I want to say.

I'm sure the Lyman manual will be pretty good at explaining things as far as the process goes.

 

[John3921]

Lyman manual is great for background info and how to's. I use the powder mfg website for specific recipes. Alliant and Hodgdon both have pretty good load libraries.

Universal is a very good 20 or 28 gauge powder. I'm not sure about it in the 12. I use Clays or Clay Dot (Alliants copy of Clays). I load 1 oz loads for most target loads.

 

[jwrowland77]

Awesome. Thanks for the info John.

 

[rfwobbly]

Where shotshell loading differs from metallic is that there are no 'pressure signs' you're either good - or you're not. SAAMI max pressure for the 12 gauge is 11,500 psi. Most of us try to load with some margin on that number - i.e. look for loads in the 10,000 psi range.

You do not get to substitute components. If the recipe calls for a certain wad or primer - you have to use that wad (or a clone) and that primer. When in doubt email the tech services folks at the powder co. and ask about a specific substitution. I sub Fio primers for rem or win primers in my target loads - but I keep a pretty good margin on pressure and I wrote alliant and asked specifically on at least one of my loads to be sure.

John2931 gave you excellent advice.


Additionally...
► If you now load on a Lee metallic press, then you'll get along good with the MEC machines. Although the MECs publish that the gauge can be converted, most everyone simply buys 2 machines. Gauge swaps in shotshell are not anything like caliber swaps in metallic.

If you are now loading on a Dillon or other high-end, full featured press, you might want to think about a Ponness-Warren 375, or better. Those can load dual gauges on a single press.

► Don't expect a past payback like you got with metallic reloading. If fact, if you can break even, then you're doing fantastic.

► Since the loads, wads, and primers vary considerably, most everyone simply decides to concentrate their efforts on either Winchester AA, Federal, or Remington. It's not like metallic where you can pick up any piece of brass and use it. As John alluded to, it's all very highly brand dependent.

► Your plan for down-loading 12ga for your wife is really the only viable reason to reload shotshell these days. 3/4oz in 12 is very popular.

Best of luck.

 

[cfullgraf]

To add,

If you use good components, you should save money over equivalent factory ammunition, but it has been a while since I bought shot shell supplies. At least for 12 ga, there are many economy priced shells available these days and they were tough to save money on when i was reloading.

But, if you down load the shells to 7/8 oz or 3/4 oz, then you can save money and have a good supply of shells. The equivalent factory ammunition may be hard or impossible to find.

You can save money on .410 reloading as factory ammunition is expensive. I have not loaded any of the current AAHS shells, but the old AA .410 hulls could be reloaded many times (shows you how long it has been since I did much shot shell reloading). I used to load 1/2 oz target loads for skeet. I would use W296 powder but there are others on the market today. (I still have about a case of new WW .410 AA shells left over from when i shot competitively)

MEC loaders are the way to go for basic loaders. I have four 600jr's, one for each gauge (12, 20, 28 and .410 bore). I do not shoot 3" .410, but i would not want to readjust the press from 2-1/2" to 3". They are pretty inexpensive new and even less expensive if you find one used. A good deal on a used MEC and doing the gauge change ONCE might be a good way to get a low price on one of the less popular gauges like 28 ga and .410. It would definitely remove the thoughts of doing gauge changes on a regular basis.

For skeet, my 20 gauge average with 7/8 oz loads was better than my 12 gauge average with 1 oz loads so the lighter shot load was not a disadvantage for me. That is probably not the case for the top shooters. In fact, I got where I shot 20 gauge in the 12 gauge event because my 20 ga. scores were better.

I used Unique for my 20 and 28 gauge loads. There are other good powders out there as well but I also used Unique for handguns so it kept my inventory a bit lower.

Have fun.

 

[westy16925]

Another vote for the MECs. You will not be disappointed. Stay away from the plastic lee press. I load a 3/4 oz 12 gauge load with Clays for my 12 year old daughter. She loves it. Sometimes I even grab a box of it for small game.

 

[Blackrock]

http://www.oncefiredhulls.com/asp-bin/inventory.asp

Not to bad pricing on once fired hulls. I use Remington STS along with Win AA's that a friend gave me.

 

[jwrowland77]

Sweet. Thanks for the link.

On the Win AA, does it matter what color? I noticed there was red and grey.

 

[Blackrock]

Nope Red, Gray and Black all load the same

 

[rsrocket1]

If you have a skeet/trap/sporting clays range anywhere near you, you shouldn't pay a dime for hulls. Ask first, but most places have no problems with "dumpster diving". I have several 10 gallon buckets full of Remington Gun Club hulls (my favorite hull). They can be reloaded at least 6 times, most can be loaded 10-12 times. I just load until the petals get too crispy and fall off. Some one chronographed them show virtually no fall off of velocity between load #2 and #10. Remington hulls load the same whether STS, Nitro, Gun Club or black hulls, but some are 6 fold crimps so sort those out and load them separately with a 6 fold crimp starter (if you even want to bother).

Other common hulls:
Winchester Super X, Universal, USA. Leave 'em in the bin. The plastic is very thin and unless the powder/wad/shot column is of perfect height, you will end up with a dished crimp or more likely a collapsed wall or a crimp that will open up in a few days because like the AA's, they have the least internal volume of the domestic hulls.

Federal Top Gun/Estate. Might be OK for "once and done". Only pick up if you are sure they never got wet. The base is rolled paper and will soak up water. These can separate and cause a bore obstruction and a bulged barrel. Greatest internal volume which is good for slower powders and big loads, but needs more powder for typical target shooting.

Definitely get the MEC instead of the Lee. If you are used to progressive handgun loading, you'll really want a progressive press. I'm very glad I got a used MEC9000GN ($350) after a few years being used to the LnL AP. 100 pulls, 100 shells.

3/4 oz 12 gauge has a recoil between a 20 gauge and a 28/.410 so you might want to try that out before getting a separate .410 loader. You want a fast powder like Red Dot/Promo/Clays/Clay
Dot/Titewad/Extra Lite and about 1300 fps for a good pattern (slower loads leave a "hot" center and fewer pellets on the perimeter). Not enough pressure is usually the bane of 3/4 ounce loads, not excessive pressure.

Hope that helps.

 

[jaguarxk120]

As mentioned before in some of the posts, downloading or lighter shot charges works great.
I now shoot a Duster wad (clearduster) that's for 7/8 oz. in a Remington shell (STS, Gun Club).
The MEC 7/8 charge bar actually throws a lighter charge somewhere between 7/8 & #/4 oz. the recoil is very light and the shell will break clays just as good as the 1 1/8oz loadings.

 

[gspn]

If you go with the MEC, get the adjustable charge bar. It was the only thing I had to add to mine and it made life so much simpler. It will keep you from having to buy a bunch of bushings, none of which really throw what they are supposed to. The adjustable lets you dial in exactly what you want, and when you change loads just dial in the new setting.

 

[griff383]

I have a couple of old MEC presses that you can have if you want, Ill send you a PM with details.

 

[jwrowland77]

Awesome guys. I really appreciate all the advice.

I didn't even think about asking the Game and Fish range for their hulls.

I'll have to get on that. Reloading has done one thing for me. Over the last 1 1/2-2 years, they've gotten to know me at the state ran range. They know me by first and last name now. I might have a in on the hulls. That would help. Of course free is always nice.

 

[blarby]

The lyman manual will do you quite a bit of good using that Universal- its all over in there !

For the .410, I just started loading that this year- using an old lee hand press. The Remington and AAHS hulls seem to work fairly well. I've had better luck with the Remi hulls than the AAHS.

 

[ilmonster]

Yup MEC. I have an MEC 9000 that I load 12 ga. with. It has 6-7K rounds loaded through it and looks and works like new. I load a 7/8 oz. load at 1200 fps for shooting mostly skeet, with some sporting clays thrown in. If I miss with the 7/8 oz. load, I would miss with the 1 oz. load - when I miss, I miss! Still can run 25 straight every once and a while.

I like the 7/8 oz. load as recoil is negligible, and rounds are not pricey. Hard to find those in the store in 12 ga. (that duplicates a 20 ga load).

 

[41 Mag]

Nother vote for the Lyman manuals. I got started with one when I was around 11 or so, been using them since. Being I'm knocking hard on 50 now that ought to tell you something. My pop said I was shooting him into the poor house so I either had to learn to load my own or do without. I couldn't honestly tell you how many rounds of 12ga have rolled off my little Pacific press, but between a friend and I we would shoot half a case one weekend, and have them loaded up and ready to shoot the next.

 

[wolfe]

You got a local trap & skeet club nearby? If so go ask someone about buying hulls, most of the hard core guys have 1,000s and don't come close to using them all. I use them with splits in the side, don't mean to nut it happens with nothing bad happen. Worst I have ever done was one or two double charged shells and after one you pay close attention.

After you get some hulls ask a couple of the friendly guys what they load for target rounds, best recipes are handed down.

I have shot a mec 29 bushing (17.5 grns +/-) of 700x with 1 1/8 of #8 shot and I have used claybuster figure 8 wads. If that us too hot then drop your powder charge. Most of the guys in my club are like old ladies that cook. Start with recipe and then go up or down to suit there needs. Looks like my load is hotter than most but I Average 97/100 on trap and 95/100 on skeet and am superstitious so I don't change.

On to .410. Winchester AA and remington sts hulls are both good but you need winchester wads or remington wads to get good crimp. Lil' gun powder is a good choice for .410 or 28 ga.

I swear by MEC. Got 4 of them. Grabber in 12 ga and single stage in the other 3 gauges.

Been reloading since I was 14 or 15 and love it. Enjoy cranking out those shells...