Shotshell Wad "One Rem SP12"

[BruceRDucer]

Anyone know of a supplier for this WAD?

Shotshell Wad "One Rem SP12"

Does anyone have the exact equivalent or a chart to show this?

Thanks

 

[ants]

Rem SP12 is a standard plastic wad for 1-1/4 ounce of shot in a 12 gauge hull. I'm not sure what the 'One' signifies. I can't help you with that.

SP12 is fairly common, although wads for 1 ounce and 1-1/8 ounce are more common. I see them at Bass Pro and/or Sportsman's Warehouse now and then, but I generally use Claybuster in 12 gauge so I haven't paid much attention to the Remington wads lately.

 

[_DMC]

Nobody that I know of makes a clone of the SP-12. Midway is out of stock. Grafs has them in stock.

DC

 

[sargenv]

As I keep saying.. anything to do with shotshell reloading, Ballistic products is your source!

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

Look under "wads".

 

[BruceRDucer]

SargenV, thanks, and I have ordered from them and rec'd them.

However, you must be patient, because there is a massive learning curve.

In fact, I have called and asked for specific info in shotgun reloading, and one does not always recieve definitive and knowledgeble answers.

In fact, I've wasted more time trying to run down components for ordinary shotgun 12 guage recipies for ordinary 12 3/4" shells than I care to remember.

In my opinion, the entire shotshell reloading world is just plain nuts.

Supplies aren't available. Equivalency Charts are not readily available.

Information, such as whether the Winchester AA 2 3/4" Hulls marked........ 1 1/8 oz (that you already bought!) can be reloaded with .....1 1/4 oz of lead shot is NOT available.

It's a 3 ring circus out there.

People recommend Remington Hulls, and then you cannot find them. The manufacturers don't have phone numbers and etc, etc, etc....

Tell you what, I'm just going to take over the world, and run it as a Shotgunners reloading paradise. Whaddya think?

/

/

 

[ants]

Well, BruceRDucer, ol buddy, you're still at the beginning of your learning curve. In a short while you will look back and laugh at all your rookie questions.

Also, I notice you're still bent on loading 1-1/4 ounce shotshells.

As I told you before: The reloading world revolves around 1 oz and 1-1/8 oz loads. Stick with those until you learn your craft. Then get into the 1-1/4 ounce loads if you want. If you don't follow my advice, quit yer bichin' (and I mean that with a smile, friend). You're only making it HARDER on yourself as a beginner.

By the way, 12ga hulls can be loaded anywhere from 7/8oz to 1.5oz. It's the WADS that make the difference in shot capacity, not the hulls. Take a moment to go back to your published load tables, and notice that the wad is specific to the amount of shot.

 

[BruceRDucer]

Ants:

Well hit me with a stick and call me Spanky.

You're always ready with good information, and I know I can count on you.

But I've already bought 1 1/4 stuff to save the world and get the trophy Godzilla.

Now, I'll just have to follow through with it. Your information about Hulls and Wads is very helpful though.

By the way, 12ga hulls can be loaded anywhere from 7/8oz to 1.5oz. It's the WADS that make the difference in shot capacity, not the hulls. --Ants

Being destined for greatness as a reloader, I'll soon own everything.

Besides, if I'm still bichin, I'm still happy.

/
/

 

[ants]

I am committed to the fact that we learn by doing. It's better to dive in, make your decisions and follow through. You, my friend, are learning a lot. You really can't lose, you can only have more fun.

Oh, by the way, MidwayUSA has lots of hulls 100 for $10, plus shipping. That's not a bargain basement smokin deal. But at least they are available in many different brands and types. Also check the online auctions. Or buy a coffee for some old timer trap shooter who would trade a keg of powder for 3000 hulls.

 

[BruceRDucer]

Thanks Ants. I'll work my way into the heart of a Trap shooter around here somewhere. We've got some good ranges.

I found some really neat trays for 12 gauge shells from

www.ammoboxes.com

....which nobody at Sportsman's Warehouse ever showed me before. Heck, I needed these a year ago. They hold 50 12 ga shells upside down. Love those.

I will say one thing though Ants. I am careful about not substituting. My goal in chamber pressures is somewhere in the 9500 PSI range.

 

[ants]

I love boxes where you load primer facing up. Yep. I use them for rifle and pistol. Easier to grasp, and you get a final check on primer seating. Berry's also makes them http://www.berrysmfg.com/categories/44-0.php .

Have you chosen your powder yet? 9500psi is fairly low, and can be surprisingly hard to achieve with 1-1/4oz shot. You can do it, but choose your powder well. A heavier shot charge moves slower, so pressure builds up higher and faster.

What type of shotgun? For 1-1/8oz shot I usually load for 10500 to 11000 psi, simply because I have a Rem 1100 autoloader that doesn't cycle until it gets enough psi for the gas piston. But by using Titegroup it recoils less than factory loads (I get the same velocity as 3-dram equivalent over the chronograph). The patterns are good enough.

On the other hand, I drop the psi way down to 9800 or so when I'm loading for the over/under. It gives me much better patterns, but the O/U also has 4" longer barrels, so it's hard to tell if the superior pattern is the load or the barrel.

 

[BruceRDucer]

Thanks Ants:

Have you chosen your powder yet? 9500psi is fairly low, and can be surprisingly hard to achieve with 1-1/4oz shot. You can do it, but choose your powder well. A heavier shot charge moves slower, so pressure builds up higher and faster.--Ants

So far, I've got about three workable recipes, all for 1 1/4 oz loads in 2 3/4" shells. It is a more militant load, I'll admit, but I hate the idea of small game flopping around wounded.

Got Universal, and 800-X. I think I'll use 800-X first.
I also have CLAYS from an earlier purchasing period, but I'll set that aside.

These are for a Mossberg 500 in 28"
(the "Sporting Model")

I asked a few weeks back about the maximum Chamber Pressures and Dave McCracken said that something around 13,000 PSI was the wall or not much more.

I would really like to know the precise pressure at which the chamber breaks, just to feel informed.

800-X looks really good on some of the Hodgdon calculators.

I'm thinking of buying UNIQUE also, but I thought I saw where somebody said it was a "dirty" powder. I don't really know if that matters. After all, cleaning is cleaning.

I've got some 00 Buck to load also, and hope to load rifled slugs eventually.

 

[ants]

There was an old formulation of Unique that was dirtier. The new formula (maybe 5 years old???) is significantly cleaner. All commercial powders are dirty. Factory powders are cleaner, but they don't package them for retail sale. We only get the dirty stuff.

800X sounds interesting.

By any chance, do you have any shotshell reloading books? I don't own the Lyman shotshell book, but I hear it has lots of technical info on pressure.

 

[ants]

I don't load slugs because I only shoot 5 or 10 per year, and they're only $4.50 for a box of 5. It's not like loading shot of the same weight. Cut open a factory slug shotshell and see what's inside.

But buckshot! Oh, yes. You can definitely work up excellent buckshot loads much cheaper than factory. You bet.

 

[snuffy]

Bruce, let me put a couple .02 into this conversation. My history, well I started loading shotshells before I got into rifle, then pistol in 1969. Those shells were for ducks, the plastic wads/shells were brand new back then, the Remington "power piston wad" had only been around for 5-6 years.

When I got started, I found an old f**t in a basement under a liquor store selling shotshell components along with loaders and most importantly tested data. He set me up with Hercules herco, a charge bar for the 600 jr. mec he sold me, for 1 1/4 ounce loads. It had a powder hole that dispensed 26.5 grains of herco. Then he sold me 100 empty AA shells, and a 250 count of rem sp-12 wads! Yup, the same ones you're asking about. WW-209 primers, a bag of #6 chilled shot and I was ready to load shells.

Those shells put the shot out at 1300 fps, with a pattern out of my rem 870 full choke that was nearly 85% at 40 yds! The important part of the sp-12 wad is the construction. It has the slits only half way back to the bottom of the cup. This holds the back half of the shot for a few milliseconds longer than the front half, resulting in center heavy patterns. Then, it has a rib on the inside that further strengthens the wad fingers.

Later,(about 5-6 years), I switched to WW-540,(HS-6), at 33.0 grains. Those loads were about the same velocity and had nearly the same patterns,(same hull).

For your wants, I would go with the 800X also. This data is from the Lyman 4th edition shotshell handbook, "the bible".
800X, 25.5 grains, one (1) sp12, win 209 primer, 1291 fps, 9,300 LUP.

For universal clays, there's very little, nothing for the sp12, but using the rem. R12H, 26.0 univ. clays, win 209, 1222 fps, at 8,600 LUP.

The above suggested Unique powder has a load using the sp12.
Unique, 24.0, CCI 209, one (1) sp12, 1285 fps, at 9,600 LUP.

All of these loads would be very effective for small game. Of course we can't use them on waterfowl anymore! Personally, I would go with magnum hard shot to improve the patterns and increase the penetration. These loads are where you will save money reloading shotshells. The premium heavy field loads, are quite expensive.

If you have anymore questions, ask away, I've probably been there, done that.

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

YO SPANKY ! Instead of trying to call around trying to get specific info on each and every shotshell round you would like to try see if you can find a 4th edition Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual . It has some advantages over the spankin new 5th edition in that it took the time to rate each of the specific load catagories for every hull in all of the gauges for the "most ballistically uniform" rating. It is a very good manual and I have seen several of them still on shelves at my local sporting goods retailers. If you are looking to get into some of the newer "special" shotshell loads such as Hevi-Shot etc. you will need the 5th edition which like the 4th edition has more 12 ga. loads than a man could try in a lifetime but they dropped the " most uniform" selection from this book . Happy shooting to you !10 SPOT

 

[_DMC]

I asked a few weeks back about the maximum Chamber Pressures and Dave McCracken said that something around 13,000 PSI was the wall or not much more.

I would really like to know the precise pressure at which the chamber breaks, just to feel informed.

For 12 Gauge 2 3/4" and 3" guns, Max Avg Pressure is 11,500 PSI. They are proofed between 18,000 and 19,500 PSI. It "breaks" somewhere above that - usually. Keep it to 11,500 PSI or lower, you'll be OK.

DC

 

[BruceRDucer]

Ants, I got the Lyman reloading book, which has helped.

I use this Hogdon site for calculating the recipe:

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Thanks for the info on commercial (dirty) vs factory Powders.

/

 

[BruceRDucer]

Thanks Snuffy, I'll reply tomorrow, as I'm a bit overwhelmed right now.

_____________________________________________

 

[ants]

DMC wrote: For 12 Gauge 2 3/4" and 3" guns, Max Avg Pressure is 11,500 PSI.

I just took a look at several shotshell guides for 2-3/4" 12 gauge. The published data do peak out at 11,500.

 

[BruceRDucer]

Here's the kind of data I'm getting from Hodgdon:

1) Gauge*
- All - 12 (2) Load Type
- Select - Lead Shot (3) Shot Weight (Oz.)
- All - 3/4 oz.7/8 oz.1 oz.1 1/8 oz.1 1/4 oz.1 3/8 oz.1 1/2 oz.
(4) Shell*
- Select - 2 3/4" BASHIERI & PELLAGRI PLASTIC SHELLS2 3/4" CHEDDITE PLASTIC SHELLS2 3/4" FEDERAL GOLD MEDAL PLASTIC SHELLS2 3/4" FEDERAL HI-POWER PLASTIC SHELLS W/FIBER BASE WADS2 3/4" FEDERAL PAPER SHELLS2 3/4" FIOCCHI, VICTORY, PMC AND NOBEL SPORT PLASTIC SHELLS (LOW BASEWAD)2 3/4" REMINGTON STS, OR NITRO 27, OR GUN CLUB PLASTIC SHELLS2 3/4" WINCHESTER COMPRESSION - FORMED AA & HS TYPE PLASTIC SHELLS (5) Manufacturer:
- All - HodgdonIMRWinchester (6) Powder
- All - Universal [Hodgdon]HS-6 [Hodgdon]Longshot [Hodgdon]



Shell: 2 3/4" WINCHESTER COMPRESSION - FORMED AA & HS TYPE PLASTIC SHELLS

Load Type Gauge Shot Wt. Powder Primer Wad Powder Wt. (Gr.) Pressure Vel. (ft/s)

Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209 Rem. SP12 22.5 10,700 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209 Rem. SP12 23.9 11,100 PSI 1250
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209 WAA12F114 23.5 10,000 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209M Rem. SP12 23.3 11,100 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209M WAA12F114 22.5 11,400 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209SC Rem. SP12 23.3 10,600 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209SC Rem. SP12 24 11,400 PSI 1250
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal CCI 209SC WAA12F114 22 10,700 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Fed. 209A Rem. SP12 22.4 11,500 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Fed. 209A WAA12F114 22.6 11,500 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Fio. 616 Rem. SP12 24.5 9,600 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Rem. 209P Rem. SP12 23.3 10,600 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Rem. 209P Rem. SP12 24.2 11,200 PSI 1250
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Rem. 209P WAA12F114 23 11,500 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Win. 209 Rem. SP12 22.8 10,700 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Win. 209 Rem. SP12 23.3 11,400 PSI 1250
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Universal Win. 209 WAA12F114 23 10,900 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. HS-6 Win. 209 Fed. 12C1 32 8,700 LUP 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. HS-6 Win. 209 Fed. 12C1 35 10,400 LUP 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. HS-6 Win. 209 Rem. R12H 31.5 9,000 LUP 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. HS-6 Win. 209 Rem. R12H 35 10,600 LUP 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. HS-6 Win. 209 WAA12F114 30 8,800 LUP 1220
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. HS-6 Win. 209 WAA12F114 33 10,500 LUP 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot CCI 209M Fed. 12S4 28.5 10,900 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot CCI 209M Rem. SP12 29.3 8,900 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot CCI 209M Rem. SP12 30.7 9,900 PSI 1385
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot CCI 209M Rem. SP12 32.1 10,800 PSI 1440
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot CCI 209M WAA12F114 29.3 10,200 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot CCI 209M WAA12F114 30.1 11,300 PSI 1385
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Fed. 209A Rem. SP12 28.6 9,400 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Fed. 209A Rem. SP12 30 10,600 PSI 1385
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Fed. 209A WAA12F114 27.7 10,800 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P Fed. 12S4 28.5 11,000 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P Rem. SP12 29.1 9,400 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P Rem. SP12 30.9 9,800 PSI 1385
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P Rem. SP12 32.2 11,200 PSI 1440
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P WAA12F114 27.9 10,500 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P WAA12F114 29.5 11,300 PSI 1385
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Fed. 12S4 29.8 9,400 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Fed. 12S4 31.1 10,500 PSI 1385
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Rem. SP12 30 8,300 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Rem. SP12 31.5 9,300 PSI 1385
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Rem. SP12 33 10,400 PSI 1440
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Win. 209 WAA12F114 28.7 9,800 PSI 1330
Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. Longshot Win. 209 WAA12F114 30.4 10,800

 

[Galil5.56]

"Lead Shot 12 1 1/4 oz. HS-6 Win. 209 WAA12F114 33 10,500 LUP 1330".

This load is a classic HV 1 1/4 oz load, and has been for many, many years using the propellant mentioned and WW540 as a WW factory/factory equivalent load as I recall. It is dirty as HELL, but loads well with a good crimp. I have loaded it for a long time, and when I want a classic 1 1/4 oz std velocity load I will use Unique. As mentioned, if just starting out go with the "easy" to load proven classics such as 18 grains Red Dot, 1 1/8 oz shot, AA wad, WW primer.

After awhile you will find what you like to load best with regard to crimp quality, compression needed, consistency... What just works.

Understand what Dram Equivalent means yet?

 

[ants]

18 grains Red Dot, 1 1/8 oz shot, AA wad, WW primer

Galil, that load takes me all the way back to 1968 when I was in high school and couldn't afford to buy new shotshells. I was dying to shoot dove and quail with my buddies, so I started loading my own. My buddy Brad and I would fill everyone else's daily bag limit. Every day we brought home enough birds for family dinner, paying for the press and components.

BruceRDucer, maybe you can consider setting those 1-1/4oz wads aside for now, you'll use them in the future. Buy some WAA12 (or ClayBuster 1118-12, it's a clone of WAA12) and some Red Dot. It will be so easy to load and shoot that you won't be distracted by any other problems.

 

[BruceRDucer]

Understand what Dram Equivalent means yet? --Galil 5.56

Its...um......er....a measurement for a Grain equivalent of Propellant, I guess.....er.... somethin'!

-----------------------------------------------------

maybe you can consider setting those 1-1/4oz wads aside for now, you'll use them in the future.----Ants

Well, if I have to. Will I still be able to kill game with store-bought loads? With the 1 1/8 Loads that I load?

When I went dove hunting for the first time in September, I was getting hits like crazy, feathers flying everywhere, but birds wouldn't drop. I hate sissy stuff. I want my game to drop cold. So, if I have to.....

(after all, it just means more reloading. LOL)

/

 

[Galil5.56]

Quote:18 grains Red Dot, 1 1/8 oz shot, AA wad, WW primer

Galil, that load takes me all the way back to 1968 when I was in high school and couldn't afford to buy new shotshells. I was dying to shoot dove and quail with my buddies, so I started loading my own. My buddy Brad and I would fill everyone else's daily bag limit. Every day we brought home enough birds for family dinner, paying for the press and components.

BruceRDucer, maybe you can consider setting those 1-1/4oz wads aside for now, you'll use them in the future. Buy some WAA12 (or ClayBuster 1118-12, it's a clone of WAA12) and some Red Dot. It will be so easy to load and shoot that you won't be distracted by any other problems.

Takes me back many years as well. my first load used Winchester paper hulls, 1 1/8 #7.5, CCI "Trap" primer (all copper color w/clear lacquer over flash hole) 700x, and an RXP wad. Maybe not the best, but try telling that to a 13 year old completely taken and obsessed with reloading. Shortly after I got caught up in trap shooting/dove hunting and buying in bulk to include 4lb paper "drums" of Red Dot. I always recommend "THE" AA Red Dot load because it simply works well, and will assemble easily into a nice looking round that builds confidence in beginners.

I will say one thing, it is a shame that the AA hulls of today are not anywhere near the quality of the ones from the 70'/80's.

 

[Galil5.56]

Well, if I have to. Will I still be able to kill game with store-bought loads? With the 1 1/8 Loads that I load?

When I went dove hunting for the first time in September, I was getting hits like crazy, feathers flying everywhere, but birds wouldn't drop. I hate sissy stuff. I want my game to drop cold. So, if I have to.....

(after all, it just means more reloading. LOL)

How is the shot hardness, load used, choke? Although I do love the Red Dot load I mentioned, I use a lot of International Clays and Unique in "International style" HV 1 1/8 oz loads and Hard shot. Both chronograph @ 1275 fps, and work very well on Doves in my experience if I connect.