Should he trade his heavy FAL for a petite AR-15?

[Snowdog]

Well, this is my first and likely last question pertaining to SHTF, as I don't particularly like to dwell over such things as paratroopers wearing blue helmets and such (though I understand there are many things that can contribute to a temporary social breakdown, making it perfectly plausible).
I simply find the prospect depressing and view preparation as insurance I hope I never have to use; akin to auto/health insurance coverage in preparation of potential auto collisions.

Here's a hypothetical question for any THR philanthropists willing to help:

Let's say there's this really nice guy named Mr. ArticCanine. He has a Springfield SAR-4800 Match (FAL clone) that he bought several years ago. For the past 5 years it has served as part of a “grab-n-run†kit, specifically to cover any SHTF scenario.

This Springfield FAL has had the thumbhole stock replaced with a two piece stock. He also had the barrel threaded and a KDF muzzle brake installed.

Mr. ArticCanine is quite pleased with his rifle and finds it surprisingly accurate, powerful and mild recoiling (albeit obnoxiously loud). Never has the rifle malfunctioned on Mr. ArticCanine.

However, being that the rifle is hefty, as is large quantities of 7.62x51 ammunition, he has flirted around with the prospects of replacing the rifle with an AR-15.
Why would he ever consider such a thing? Why, his FAL fires ammunition possessing over twice the muzzle energy as the 5.56x45!

Well, that may amount to something when using expanding ammunition, but how about if he’s ever reduced to firing military hardball? Just how much of that 2,500+ fpe will go to use if that 147gr fmj zips nose-first clean through a target?
On the other hand, I’m sure he’s heard somewhere that 55gr and 62gr 5.56 military ball typically lose stability after impact with a target within a certain range, possibly gleaning a ballistic advantage over 7.62 ball.

Well, how about the extended range the FAL may offer Mr. ArticCanine? Well, he can’t shoot too well at extended ranges anyway, so all shots would likely stay within 200 yards.

So here he is, debating whether to sell his FAL and buy an AR-15. Lighter rifle, lighter ammunition, good FMJ terminal ballistics within 200 yards… is he missing something?

He would love to be talked out of the trade if he could. He absolutely loves his Springfield, but it’s earmarked for a specific role… and he cannot dip into the account for an AR-15 due to financial priorities. It’s one or the other, for SHTF and nothing else. Any rifle he chooses will be used/carried only by him.

BTW, if you believe he should opt for the AR-15, how much do you think he should sell his like-new Springfield for?

Thanks for the help, he’s been milling over this one for a while now.

 

[SodaPop]

Cut the FAL down to 18inchs.

 

[DMK]

Mr. Canine,

In the area that we live in, one has to ponder the necessity of the range and power capabilities of the mighty FAL. Distances should be under 300 yards for any scenario I can imagine, but on the other hand, you could need to shoot though the cover of logs, trees and other stuff. Also keep in mind, that right now, 7.62x51 surplus ammo is cheaper than 5.56x45. FAL mags are also a heck of a lot cheaper than AR mags.

I agree about needing a light carbine though. Not being 18 anymore, I wouldn't want to haul my FAL or even Garand any distance with a load of ammo. I'll take an AR for anything that requires being mobile.

I say keep the FAL and build an AR. This way you don't have to fork over all the money at once. Buy an upper this month, a lower the next, the lower parts kit the month after that, etc.

Having options is a good thing.

If TWEAWKI and you need a light carbine before that, just come on out here to Franklin and I'll lend you one of my SKS.

 

[Mulliga]

ARs are pretty crazily expensive, but even with that, I've still wanted one for a long, long time.

In how many situations will you need to penetrate cover? Personally, when I think SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, I think defense. While ARs aren't the best for hitting zombies/aliens/stormtroopers hiding behind trees or in bunkers, they are certainly better suited for keeping attackers at bay under 150 meters or in close range combat. While most scoff at the penetration of .223, remember that it can still go through most residential doors/walls/windows with ease if you are in a CQB situation, and especially if you are using ball ammo. Plenty of practical penetrating power.

Overpenetration is another factor. I use 150 gr. .30-06 PSP bullets, and overpenetration is STILL a problem with the smallish deer around where I live (North Central Florida). They die, of course, but it's a lot of heavy ammo and recoil for not much added effect at short ranges. While it's wrong to blindly buy into the "jello junkie" fragmentation reports, in a survival situation, you don't want to necessarily put 1.5 tons of force into a target if 800 pounds will get the guy limping in another direction.

DMK's advice is common and correct IMHO - spread out the purchase and tinker with the sucker. Keep the FAL.

 

[one-shot-one]

WISH

wish i had a ar15 or even a m16 to trade you.
in your shoes i would never even consider it.
keep your fal and save for a second "backup" ar.
$0.02 or there abouts.

 

[dbshabo]

Don't know what you should do. I have 2 AR's and won't give 'em up for anything. I am also in the market for a .308 battle rifle. I just read today that Bushmaster has a new .308 coming out (BAR-10) to compete with the Armalite AR-10. They designed it to use FAL mags. I really like the sounds of that!! I'm gonna be lookin' for some reviews on this rifle. I got a spot open in the safe for one if they are reliable and accurate as their AR-15's.

Anyway if you do decide to sell the FAL there is one for sale on GunBroker for $1499.00. It's listed as a SAR 48 Match, it looks like yours. I'd say keep the FAL and build an AR also.

Shabo

 

[swingcatt]

Those Springfield FAL clones are only good in the hands of mutant furry alligators. Luckily for you, you have one.


SC

 

[Jack19]

I sold my last FAL a couple months ago; I've had three. One with the 21 inch barrel and two with 18 inch barrels. Some people like the shorter barrels....I'm not one of them. The last one had a DSA muzzle brake on it...and shot hot gas four feet to each side when fired. Not the way to make friends at the range and it was distracting.

Don't get me wrong, I love the FAL....but for simple hauling around, my AR is king. It's light and carries a lot of ammo that is very effective when used as intended. For SHTF.... the FAL might have it's advantages, but I don't think to the degree that it would be necessary instead of an AR.

I do want another .308...just because being able to punch through things can sometimes be an advantage....but it'll be a bolt with optic next time.

YMMV

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I dunno...I haven't put them on a scale to weigh them, but my comp HBAR and my STG58 feel like they weigh the same.

I'd stick with the bigger bullet.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[Atticus]

Both choices are good ones, however; base your decision on how much you like the FAL or AR, and what will likely happen - not what could happen in a blue moon. An elephant could escape from the zoo and attack your home - but you probably wouldn't sell the FAL and buy a .416 double rifle. In other words - don't let imagined scenarios dictate your purchase.

 

[Grump]

With the question as stated and your goals, I would sell the FAL for anything above $1200, get a nice $6-700 AR (post-bans are still that cheap, right?), and put 1/3 the difference into ammo, 1/3 into magazines (now that you have the ammo to meaningfully TEST the mags), and 1/3 to something fun with your family/friends.

Goal is still met and you come out ahead.

I see no need for lots of fancy doo-dads on your AR. Not much point in pigging it up to a 10-lb beast. If you need to do add-ons, limit yourself to a sturdy but inexpensive red-dot sight and maybe a light mount. Just don't buy those $90 lights unless you really have the Jones for one.

 

[Mulliga]

not what could happen in a blue moon. An elephant could escape from the zoo and attack your home - but you probably wouldn't sell the FAL and buy a .416 double rifle.

Great - now I need a .416 double for when TEHTF...

 

[El Rojo]

I think the choice is pretty obvious. Hold onto the FAL and save up for an AR. Two armed people are better than one. Plus who really sells guns that often?

 

[artherd]

Best is to hold onto both, though I question the use of a .308 inside 200meters.

As you mentioned, what does it really do at that range that .223 will not do ? Not a whole lot.


And you can carry 100 rounds of .223 for every 30 of .308.


.308 is great in a bolt or precision accurate self-loader with a scope and an engaugement envalope of 300-1000yds (with match ammo, not surplus.)


Then again, if you really like the FAL, and it works FOR YOU all the time, that's really what's important.


Short answer: Get (your paws on) an M4 and see if you like it! From a numbers standpoint, in my opinion, it's a better gun. But the numbers may not apply to you.



Additional SHTF thought: Pollice cars around the country are a source for spare AR parts and ammo when you will need them. GOOD LUCK finding FAL parts.

 

[MeekandMild]

Had a FAL once; got it for a good price. It was a clunker; sold it to a pawn shop at the same price. Never missed it.

FAL isn't a target rifle though it can be used to hit targets, not a deer rifle though it would kill a deer. What is it? Wannabe battle rifle. Well I don't want to be in a battle and if I was stuck in one I'd want an NFA rifle.

OTOH an AR With a HBAR upper would be a great target rifle. With a 7.62X39 upper would be a pretty good swamp deer rifle. With a registered sear it would be a great NFA rifle.

My 2 centavos, no flame just opinion.

 

[mwv4]

Well let's see I have both th fal and AR plus an AK. I love 'em all and I would reccomend keeping the Fal, if money is that tight then I'd reccomend an ak. Cheap ammo, mags and accurate enough for the purposes. If he does'nt want to go that way then build an AR. But DON"T sell the FAL

 

[Feanaro]

Why would you trade in a great gun for a piece of... errr, I mean, uh... yeah.
The FAL is highly reliable, uses a fairly prolific cartridge, is adequately accurate and has more range and punch than an AR-15.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

For those of you who have not had the experience, the Springfield FAL clone is much better quality than the FAL proper. If I had to get rid of all my guns but one, the Springfield would be the keeper. Never a malf. They also come with a match-grade barrel quite capable of above average accuracy. I can hit 8 inch targets consistently out to 500 meters with a 4-16X 40mm scope.

To trade such a fine piece of weaponry for a mattel toy is ........ well, better not to say.

Keep that Springfield. You have no idea what a keeper you have.

Save up for the AR if you really want one.

Methinks someone will be kicking ones self in said posterior if the trade is made.

 

[roscoe]

If you can sell the FAL for $1200 and get an AR for $700, use the surplus to buy a .308 bolt rifle or .308 Saiga. That way, you can still penetrate the engine blocks of the '78 Buick LeSabres the zombies will be driving.

 

[Trebor]

Tell him to keep the FAL. As soon as he trades it off for an AR, he'll wish he had it back. If he really thinks the AR would serve his purpose better, suggest that he save up his cash or build one himself over time. Once he has both rifles and can try them out to his heart's content, he can decide which one best meets his needs and which one is "surplus to requirements."

 

[G1FAL]

Anything an AR can do, a FAL can do better, with the exception of gunfights in small hallways, due to the length. Its not as light to pack around as regular AR, but the difference in rifle alone is about a pound or two. Yes, the ammo weighs more, but just how many rounds are you intending to use?

Not only will the .30 cal penetrate cover better, but imagine for a second that those mutant zombies are driving a car. Yes, the 5.56 can probably penetrate a door, maybe on a good day go thru both sides of the car. The .30 cal can do some serious damage to not only the occupants, but anyone hiding on the other side of the car, and most of the stuff under the hood, too.

And consider this:

At ranges of under 200 meters, the AR is in its groove. But if you let the baddies get that close to you, you're probably sunk. The Blue Helmet guys will have numerous machineguns per squad, acid spitting aliens have probably got some range on their spit (and what if they have a hard exoskeleton? .30 will probably penetrate it better), and a mob of zombies closer than 200 yards to you will probably be eating you for lunch before too long. I dont know about you, but I like having the capability to engage at longer distances, if the need arises.

The AR is a good rifle, dont get me wrong. I like mine, and my wife's. And I'm in the process of buying another one right now, and will probably build several more over the next few years. I also like my AK's a lot, and have not only the real AK, but the mousegun AK too (5.45mm). But if some situation were to happen tomorrow, I'd grab one of my FALs to meet it.

 

[kotengu]

As long as we're playing - remember that the AR is in it's strongest as a heavily supported infantry weapon. If the zombies invade, I won't have mortars, helos, artillery, and tanks to back me up and be my "primary" weapons.

If I'm on my own - make it a 30 cal; if I'm on my own, make it a FAL.

The extra pound or two is well worth the comfort in knowing how much more capable the weapon system is. If a pound or two is too much to carry, I'm going to go running a couple of times this week and shave a pound or two off my belly, instead of blaming my rifle for being too heavy.....