Should I expect a Les Baer Custom Carry to run out of the box?

[MCMXI]

If you have changed the springs, then you better run another 15,000 rounds through it to make sure those springs work right, but when you do, you just have to repeat the spring change and start over again anyway.

First off, I've never had a spring break but I've had some wear out. I ran the original 16lb spring in a P220 for more than 15k rounds without issue. Most of those rounds were reloads so that's possibly why the spring lasted so long. Second, I don't agree that a pistol needs to be proven every time a new spring is installed. The 1911 is probably one of the most sensitive pistols to spring rate, so once you find a spring that works, a new spring of the same rate will also work, particularly if you buy quality springs.

Just because you put a certain number of rounds through it, doesn't mean its not going to fail on the next shot.

So where does that logic end? Which pistol would you grab to defend your life. One that you've shot 15k rounds through without a single failure, or one that you just bought that is new in box.

 

[Balrog]

One that you've shot 15k rounds through without a single failure, or one that you just bought that is new in box.

I would rather it not have 15K rounds through it. Sooner or later everything breaks.

You know what happens when a part fails on a gun with 15K flawless rounds through it? The gun fails, and you die.

You know what happens when a gun with 50 rounds through it jams because it doesn't work right? The gun fails and you die.

 

[dcmdon]

Just a statistical observation. With factory ammo, neither of my Baers or my Nighthawk have ever failed to go band, extract and feed a new round, every time I've pulled the trigger.

Thats Glock like reliability folks.

Don

p.s. Although, I'm over 30K rounds with no malfunctions with my Glock 34. Ha. Another thought is that the Glock is simply a tool. With 1911s, there is a little bit of actual craftsmanship and even "art".

 

[Rinspeed]

Just because you put a certain number of rounds through it, doesn't mean its not going to fail on the next shot.

Sorry but that's just a stupid thing to say. A Sig with 15,000 rounds through it is just getting broken in. Better stay home on the couch if you're that worried about parts failing.

 

[1911Tuner]

Should you expect it to run out of the box?

Yes. The 1911 isn't exactly a Swiss watch. It's a hundred years old. It was designed to function, and if it's correctly built, it will function. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.

 

[Balrog]

Sorry but that's just a stupid thing to say. A Sig with 15,000 rounds through it is just getting broken in. Better stay home on the couch if you're that worried about parts failing.

First, are you saying my statement is not true? If it is not true, then you must believe metal parts will never fail. Is that what you are saying. If it is true, then how can it be a stupid thing to say?

Why are you more concerned that a part will fail to work properly after 100 rounds than after 15,000?

 

[rellascout]

I love it Balrog is trolling his own thread. LOL

Every single mechinal thing could fail at anytime. For me reliability is a proven track record. It is repeatability. If a gun has gone off 15K times in my hand without a hitch then due to its proven track record of repeated performance coupled with durablity in construction I am more inclined to trust it than something I just took out of the box. YMMV.

For me the Les Baer TRS I own is just that. It is built for the long haul. It has never failed me in anyway. I maintain it check its tolerances often enough to know that it is in spec. Does that mean it will never fail? No of course not but it does lessen the chances and in the end that is all one can ask.

You asked the question should a Baer run out of the box. 99% of actual Baer owners have told you yes yet you are arguing against them. I really do not understand it. What is you point? You asked a question and Baer owners answered it. :banghead:

 

[memphisjim]

It's a 1911 so no break it in then clean religiously if you want it to be semiautomatic

 

[MCMXI]

If it is not true, then you must believe metal parts will never fail.

It depends on the part. You need to identify which parts are the most likely to fail (based on their function) and prepare accordingly.

Many here are familiar with this information, but if you want to read a good article on the 1911, I highly recommend this one by Hilton Yam.

http://www.10-8consulting.com/article_page.php?articleID=13

I will readily admit that I hadn't realized that it's not good to drop a round in through the ejection port. I honestly don't know if I've ever done that, maybe with a snap cap, but I can't be sure. Regardless, I won't be doing that.

 

[Balrog]

You asked the question should a Baer run out of the box. 99% of actual Baer owners have told you yes yet you are arguing against them. I really do not understand it. What is you point? You asked a question and Baer owners answered it.

I am not trolling my own thread. I asked if the gun would run out of the box, not whether it would still be running after 15,000 rounds. There was no reason for that example (and it was a Sig for crying out loud, not a Les Baer 1911) to have even been discussed in my thread.

 

[rellascout]

I am not trolling my own thread. I asked if the gun would run out of the box, not whether it would still be running after 15,000 rounds. There was no reason for that example (and it was a Sig for crying out loud, not a Les Baer 1911) to have even been discussed in my thread

And what part of your question has not been answered?

 

[Balrog]

Its been answered, but people perpetuated the thread with other questions. If a moderator wants to close it, thats fine with me since people have started adding irrelevant comments.

 

[rellascout]

Its been answered.

Time to close the thread then.... LOL

 

[Balrog]

Yea its OK to close it, but if it is bothering you so much why do you keep posting in this thread???

 

[rellascout]

It does not bother me at all. I find it funny which is why I stated LOL.

 

[EddieNFL]

Am I the only one who does NOT think 15K is a high round count? I have more than a few 1911s with significantly higher round counts. The only broken parts I've experienced were early on in low/mid-range models.

 

[Balrog]

Am I the only one who does NOT think 15K is a high round count?

I don't know, that sounds like a great thread topic.

 

[clutch]

If a gun is fitted to the tight side you are going to have to break it in for sure. If it is sloppy, you still have to shoot it to see if it has the right slop built in.

I've never owned a Les Baer and likely never will. I have peened the rails on a USGI 1911 and then shot it until if was both tight and reliable. I suspect Les just makes it tight in the first place.

Recently I bought a White Oak AR15 upper. It came tight, it is still tight but it is breaking in with me just puling the bolt back enough to cock the hammer to dry fire.

I can live with it, tells me they got it very close, some break in required.

I also have a S&W M&P40c. It is reliable, it shoots every time, it never has been tight and I doubt any M&P 40 is. Hundreds of rounds later, I am now starting to trust it based on previous performance.

Running a bunch of rounds to break in / check function on/of your life saver is just being smart.

Clutch

 

[Balrog]

Running a bunch of rounds to break in / check function on/of your life saver is just being smart.

I don't think anyone is arguing that!

 

[dcmdon]

Should you expect it to run out of the box?

Yes. The 1911 isn't exactly a Swiss watch. It's a hundred years old. It was designed to function, and if it's correctly built, it will function. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.

Baers kindof are like Swiss watches. All the parts are hand fitted in a way that JMB never imagined they would. Thats why they out shoot original 1911s by a huge margin.

Just to make it perfectly clear. I have never fired a better shooting 1911 than a Baer. Wilsons or Nighthawks may handle beter, slicker dehorning, nicer textures or whatever, but when it comes time to put lead downrange, there is nothing better than a baer.

If you think I'm nuts, ask almost anyone who owns one.

With all that said, any 1911 will suffer from the basic flaws in its design. The barrel toggle, spring steel extractor and barrel locking lugs are all items that have either been eliminated or improved on more modern guns.

Camming the barrel eliminates the link and works just as well.
Large articulated extractors with separate springs can last the life of the gun
Locking the barrel on the ejection port is simpler and cheaper. Simple is always good.

 

[Tacbandit]

Quote:
"I think I'll frame that, I thought I was the only guy here with a Kimber that has ran well."

No...there's three of us...lol

Hey, it doesn't matter what status symbol or icon you carry or shoot, or what you paid for it, or how pretty it is, or how it makes your paper targets look...Regardless of who made it, if you don't run a substantial # of rounds through it before you carry and trust your life to it...you're gambling. Substantial is a relative term...it's what you think is sufficient. I may not think 500 rds is necessary as a proving ground, but I'm not gonna put down the guy who does...

 

[benderx4]

Bought a Baer TRS brand new, and it has run awesome right out of the box. Good luck with yours!

 

[Ed from Maine]

article in American rifleman

There is an interesting article in the March 1911 issue of The American Rifleman, entitled "The Evolution of the Custom Combat .45", which describes the history and evolution through several developing trends of the Kimber, Springfield, Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown and Baer, etc. semi-custom production 1911s, and what makes them different. Provides a good context for this thread.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Should I expect a Les Baer Custom Carry to run out of the box?
In thinking this over for a while, I have come to the following conclusion:
No, I do not think your Les Baer Custom Carry will run out of the box.

You are going to have to use your hands to pick it up out of the box. Maybe, someday, a pistol will act on its own, however we have a way to go before that ever comes to light.

 

[1911Tuner]

With all that said, any 1911 will suffer from the basic flaws in its design. The barrel toggle, spring steel extractor and barrel locking lugs are all items that have either been eliminated or improved on more modern guns.

A basic lack of understanding have you. Explain I will.

The "Barrel Toggle" is called the link. Its sole purpose is to get the barrel out of the slide so that the slide can pass over the top without tearing the locking lugs off.

The spring steel extractor was done in order to simplify the design, and make it less likely that a part would be lost during service in the field. It was common for a part to be designed to function as its own spring in those days...and it still works well. Spring-tempered steel also allowed the gun to be single-loaded in the event of a lost or damaged magazine...and it worked well.

The upper locking lugs are present on most of today's designs. The Beretta 92 Series is the notable exception..and that's nearly a direct copy of the Walther P38. Most of them utilize only one instead of three...but they're there. In fact, the "New/Improved" Glocks and Sigs actually have Browning's fingerprints all over them. They all operate on the tilt barrel, locked breech, short recoil principle.

Neither is the Browning High Power Browning's attempt to correct the mistakes that he made with the 1911. He died in 1926, so he never saw a High Power. Like the 1911, the High Power was designed for a military entity, and...like the 1911...it was designed with certain features requested by that entity. Had the French asked for a grip safety, the High Power would have had one, and it would be wearing one today.

Incidentally, the High Power originally had an internal, spring steel extractor similar to the 1911's...and it remained for several years. The external came about later, and most likely as a cost-reducing measure...but not because it was superior. If both are well-designed, both will work equally well.
The strength of the internal type is that it's adjustable for tension. The only way to do that with the external is to cherry-pick the coil springs...and that can get a little tedious. In that respect, the internal is vastly superior.