Should I start casting?

[WestKentucky]

I'll start this off by saying I hunt, target shoot, and fish a lot. Lead isn't cheap for any of these hobbies. I know less than nothing about lead casting so please school me on it and help me figure out whether to take the plunge or not. Calibers I reload:
38/357
44 special/mag
.256 win mag (assume 25/20)
.270win-too fast?
.243 win-too fast?
30/30

When fishing I use lead clip on sinkers as well as egg sinkers.
I know 270 and 243 are too fast for lead but would the rest be doable with wheelweights lead?

 

[vongh]

For sure the .357/38 and the 44. The 30-30 you would want to use gas checked cast bullets. Check your ww real good so don't mix any zinc in your mixture. FWIW I have had no ammo shortage because I use a lot ww cast bullets. I use sawdust to flux my mixture. I smelt the wheelweights outdoors only and a use a muffin pan to make small ingots. Than I cast indoors using a lee 10# melter.

 

[rcmodel]

Sure.

If you can find any affordable wheel weights anymore.

They are getting harder & harder to find free or cheap anymore.
And more & more zinc & steel weights in the mix now with all the fancy wheels used on new cars & trucks today.

I fear the days of lead wheel-weights is about ready to pass us by and leave us in the dust.

So Other then a new hobby?

I have not done the actual math lately.
But there are Lots of good commercial cast bullets at the same price out there if you have to buy commercial lead alloy to cast with and amortize the cost of all the casting equipment now.

rc

 

[vongh]

Well said. I was lucky and found a tire shop nearby that will sell a 5 gal bucket for $20 any other place and they wont even bargin for them. They just say there not allowed to sell them.

 

[WestKentucky]

I have a tire shop in the family, I should get weights reasonably cheap...

 

[Swampman]

NO!

CASTING LEAD is BAD!
97.95 percent of new bullet casters die of lead poisoning within six months!

The other 2.05 percent die horribly from burns received the first time they plug in their new furnace!

In the interest of public safety, it is IMPERATIVE that you gather up all the lead you can and store it safely where it cannot HARM THE CHILDREN!

Once you have about 2000 pounds saved up, notify me and I'll come dispose of it in my hazardous waste disposal '73 Ford pickup.

PS: Make sure you pick out any zinc or steel weights before you call me!

__________________________

Honestly, I think it'd probably be a great idea, particularly if you've got family in the tire business.

ALL of the calibers you mentioned will happily digest cast bullets as long as they have decent bores and you de-copper them thoroughly before shooting cast.

I've never actually loaded cast for .243 or .270, but I've loaded 'em for .257 Roberts Improved, 7mm Mauser, 30-06 and a bunch of others. Unless you plan on getting into things like paper patching and other "advanced" cast bullet techniques, don't expect to get the velocities possible with jacketed bullets.
Cast bullets do offer quite a few advantages though, decreased cost and the ability to load quiet, .22 Long Rifle power level loads for your big game rifles are two that come to mind.

The only REAL problem with casting is that its probably as addictive as crack, and if you don't watch out, even more expensive...molds, Lubrisizers, molds, furnaces, molds, molds, moulds... You get the idea?

 

[hartcreek]

I agree it is addictive. I started casting round ball for an ASM colt clone. Now I cast for everthing that I shoot but hey I aint moaning about not having any bullets either.

 

[chris in va]

I've been using wheelweights for a couple years but recently stumbled on some pure lead. I'm told to add a smidgen of tin that would harden it up enough for general semiauto bullets, so I'm going that route.

Just need to source tin that won't empty my wallet, perhaps a radiator shop.

 

[41 Mag]

Tire shop in family, start grubbing up wheel weights NOW. Stock up on as many as you can lay your hands on. Even if you decided not to pour bullets you can sell the alloy later on.

For the calibers mentioned, yes as was pointed out you can pour up bullets for them all. The handgun calibers will be pretty easily done, the rifles are a bit more in depth but doable.

Basic tools needed are

A heat source, some use a Colman camp stove, some use a turkey or fish fryer type propane burner. Myself I use the latter, and the stand will hold up to around 100# of alloy, which is usually plenty to keep me busy for a while.

A good sized SS, steel, or cast iron pot for a dedicated smelting pot to render your raw wheel weights into fluxed ingot alloy. Use sawdust for fluxing, and stir it in really good while doing so and you will find it works perfectly. Just toss in a handful, wait till it burns over to black or light it up and burn it off using a long match or piece of stick.

A few hand tools like a soup ladle to pour your ingots with, possibly even bullets but the actual pouring ladles work better. A big soup spoon to scrape the sides of your pot and skim the top of your smelted alloy with after fluxing. I added in a nice mesh screen strainer to remove the clips with. I don't have a clue where I got it or I would throw out the name.

Something to pour ingots into. Some use steel muffin pans, some use cast iron bread molds, some simply use cut off cans. As long as you can pour the hot lead into it without melting it, and dump the ingot out of it it will work. Lots of folks use angle iron molds they build themselves. Several pieces of 1 1/2" or 2" cut 6-8" long, with a piece of flat bar welded to each of the ends works great.

A single, double, or more cavity mold in the caliber and style of your choice, and your in business.

Other things you might want to add, a roll of 95-5 solder, to sweeten up your alloy with and give better fill out.

A casting thermometer to monitor your alloy while smelting and pouring bullets. Its a good idea to keep your smelt below 700 to avoid melting in the zinc weights.

 

[USSR]

WestKentucky,

Great hobby, and since you have a family tire business, go for it. However, lead wheelweights are going the way of the Dodo bird. My last wheelweight haul consisted of only about 30% lead, with the remainder being zinc and steel. Still, if you get them for free, it's well worth sorting through them.

Don

 

[WestKentucky]

Why the talk about zinc? What does it do that causes such a stir?

 

[Rico567]

I casted for 20 years, and quit almost that long ago. I was fortunate at the outset, as I had a cache of linotype metal (which is nearly perfect for bullets) that lasted me a long time. I admixed that with wheelweights, but by the time it ran out, the wheelweight situation was tending toward what we see today....and the really big stores wouldn't sell it, they had contracts. So for the last few years I was buying Lawrence Magnum Bullet Metal and casting from that. But eventually, I looked at the way the savings gap had been closed by buying commercial bullet metal, and the other VERY REAL FACTS* concerning the long-term accumulation of heavy metals in the human body, and gave my furnace and molds to a friend who was still casting, and started buying bullets. Being in a better position economically by that time helped, too.
So- it wasn't just one thing, it was several changes that brought an end to my casting after many years.

*I'm not getting into any arguments with people who think they have some kind of immunity to lead poisoning, or that making fun of it will make it not happen, so don't bother.

 

[jcwit]

Tip, join an indoor range and help clean out the backstop every 3 to 6 months. At least it works for me, tons of free lead. More than I'll ever use.

Also not going to get into any discussion regarding the long term effects of lead on the body other to say I've been casting since the 60's IIRC, much of it indoors. Have yet to have heavy metal numbers of any consequence. YMMV

My blood work is checked 3 times a year, for other reasons, but the levels are checked anyway.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Zinc melts at a higher temperature. When in a molten lead mix the zinc crystals form a mush that you can not cast with.

If "IF" the temperature is brought up (gas fired melting pot) then the zinc will melt into the molten alloy and you can cast with it. BUT the cast bullets will be harder than just the lead alloy.

In the past some people have cast using Zymak alloy or Kirksite alloy, the bullets made are very hard and much lighter in weight.

It is best to sort out the zinc weights and keep the zinc out of the pot.

 

[plmitch]

I know 270 and 243 are too fast for lead but would the rest be doable with wheelweights lead?

If this is true my .243&270 are in trouble. Both love to sling lead. I haven't found a caliber yet that you can't shoot lead in. Buy a good casting book and go over to castboolits.

 

[USSR]

Why the talk about zinc? What does it do that causes such a stir?

Get some zinc mixed in with your lead alloy, and your bullets will not fill out properly in the mould. So, you end up tossing that alloy out. The best test to check what metal your nonferrous wheelweights are made of is to take a pair of side-cutting pliers and squeeze the end of the wheelweight with the side-cutters. If the wheelweight compresses and there is a mark left by the side-cutters, then it is lead; if the wheelweight resists the side-cutters and essentially is unmarked, then you are dealing with zinc.

Don

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I have not done the actual math lately.
But there are Lots of good commercial cast bullets at the same price out there if you have to buy commercial lead alloy to cast with and amortize the cost of all the casting equipment now.

This is very true. I wouldn't cast if I had to rely on commercially sold alloy. It's just as cheap to order bullets from Missouri Bullets and be done with it.

I'm paying $40 a bucket for wheel weights. I realize that sounds expensive to those who are used to getting them for free or swapping a 12 pack of Bud for them, but it is still cheap bullets. A full bucket of wheel weights, after removing zinc and steel, still yields about 100-110 pounds of clean lead ingots. Thats $0.40 a pound for clean lead alloy. You aint beating that.

Get some zinc mixed in with your lead alloy, and your bullets will not fill out properly in the mould.

Hell, you get some zinc in there and it won't even fill out an ingot mold, much less a bullet mold. lol
Check this video out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zskn38Ggos

 

[WestKentucky]

Has anybody intentionally cast with zinc? I have a hefty supply of scrap zinc at work as we use it in injection molds for car parts. It would be hard and light, but should be pretty quick at close range, peter out quickly in medium range, and be pretty safe for ricochets as energy would be obliterated in that light of a bullet.

Not sure if it's even safe to do, and again I know nothing about the casting practice.

 

[rcmodel]

I think the use of zinc for bullet casting might pose a health risk.

The high melting point of zinc (890 degrees) coupled with it turning to zinc oxide smoke at its boiling point of about 900 degrees could be a problem.

First, no bullet casting furnace is designed to get that hot.

Second, having got a snoot full of zinc fumes from welding galvanized pipe a few times?

Sure not for me!!

rc

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Has anybody intentionally cast with zinc? I have a hefty supply of scrap zinc at work as we use it in injection molds for car parts.

Folks that shoot cannons use zinc to cast cannon balls.
There's a guy on the castboolits site who was swapping lead wheel weights for zinc straight up pound for pound. Don't know if he still is, but it would be worth it to you.

 

[medalguy]

I've seen lead sheathed telephone cable from time to time at the scrap yard. Has anyone used that for casting, or know the alloy? I was told it was pure lead.

 

[GLOOB]

Here's a crazy recommendation.

If cheap lead isn't easily available, you can still get started in casting and save a ton of money.... for your 30-30, at least.

You can make pretty darn good loads for that rifle for super, super cheap, even if you buy lead at ridiculous prices.

Mold, gas checks, tumble lube, a Lee sizer (to install checks), and a 20 lb Lee bottom pour will get you started. But I highly recommend a Lyman M die for flaring, for any cast rifle reloading.

You can load cast for your other rifles for target shooting or varmint, maybe. But I don't think you'll be deer hunting with cast bullets in 243 or 257. Your 270 might fly, if the twist rate works. But it'll be marginal, at best, and you might want a nice fluffy powder like the discontinued SR4759. Your max velocity will be in the 2200 fps range, unless you start playing with powder coating or paper patching.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

^ I agree. I'm not a big fan of deer hunting with small bores and lead.

I use them mostly for plinking and range fun.

I am going to kill a deer eventually with a cast boolit, but its in a .45 Colt and weighs 255 grains. I wouldn't shoot one with a .243 cast.

 

[plmitch]

I've seen lead sheathed telephone cable from time to time at the scrap yard. Has anyone used that for casting, or know the alloy? I was told it was pure lead.

All I've seen has been soft lead. I'd say its pure.

 

[Elkins45]

I enjoy casting, so it's not strictly an economic thing with me. But if you want to think about it in economic terms you have to also think about the guns and uses you have for cast. In my particular case I could easily run out (well, at least before the panic) and pick up a box of lead bullets for most pistol rounds in common weights and designs. But they would undoubtedly be lubed with a horrible hard commercial "crayon" lube and possibly be undersized for my bore.

What I can't easily run out and buy are cast lead rifle bullets for my 358 Winchester, .379 bullets for my 375 Win, or 300 grain pure lead flat noses for my muzzle loader. So I will still be a caster even when the wheel weights are all dried up...which will probably be soon.

I wish I had known 20 years ago this day was coming. I used to be able to buy lead from the scrapyard at $0.15/lb. for as much as I could load in my truck. I wish I had bought it all. Now the scrapyards won't sell it at all, and most won't even accept it.