Should USE of a weapon in a crime constitute a higher penalty?

[Tcruse]

I think that the one thing that would help above all else, is to change the laws. Laws that we "generally" ignore and not enforce should be removed. The Laws that remain should be enforced to the point that offenders have a greater than 90% chance of being caught and convicted. I am in favor of the jury having a lot of latitude in assessing punishment levels. I am not especially in favor of having a judge (on any government official) having the same level of latitude. In my opinion, the level of punishment is secondary to the surety of punishment. The "imposing" additional punishment based on the tools used is something that could be handled by the jury in the punishment phase. I think the idea of "hate crimes" is wrong and is used to impose a political agenda rather than promote law and order. I also think that "castle" and "Stand Your Ground" laws are extremely important for justice to be served. If a person is found "not guilty" or "no bill" after a self defense event, the BG (or agents for the BG) should not have a civil case. Actually, it would be interesting if the estate of the BG should be held responsible for the legal expenses of the defender in that case.

 

[klyph]

I see a lot of clamoring in this thread for longer sentences and stricter punishments, but not a shred of evidence that this policy will effect meaningful change. Consider Norway, they have a far more lenient justice system that rehabilitates rather than dehumanizes it's prison population, and their crime rates are a small fraction of ours. Maybe our justice system is more of a problem than the criminals themselves.

 

[Sniper66]

I have always thought that if someone holds up a convenience store with a gun, they should be charged with conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. After all they go into a business with the gun loaded intending to shoot and potentially kill anyone who attempts to stop them. Such harsh penalties convey society's message that we will not tolerate such behavior and would be a strong deterent.

 

[klyph]

Again, everyone makes the claim that draconian punishment serves as a deterrent. Where is the evidence?

 

[Tommygunn]

I don't know if draconian punishment deters any criminal, but keeping violent thugs in prison longer keeps us civies safe from their predations longer.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I disagree. Let's say a criminal attempts to commit a rape, and they are on the verge of committing the crime when a bystander comes along and scares them off. What you are saying is that the criminal who gets thwarted in their attempt should get less punishment than the criminal who is able to commit the crime to completion because less "total amount of damage" resulted?

Or let's say a robber walks into a convenience store and swipes $200 out of the cash register while the clerk is stocking the refridgerators. Another robber walks into a convenience store and puts a gun to the head of the cashier and gets $200 out of the cash register. Both criminals should face exactly the same punishment because the "total amount of damage" was the same?

You're comparing two different crimes.... The guy who grabs $200 cash while the clerk is away commited a simple theft. The guy that points the gun at the clerk commited aggravated (armed) robbery.

I don't get the point of this thread.... Most crimes do have an aggravator if a weapon is used rather it be a gun, knife or a baseball bat. Someone punches you with a closed fist giving you a black eye= Assault. Someone beats you over the head with a 2x4= Aggravated Assault (Felony). The Aggravated crime using the weapon gets the stiffer punishement. There are cases where bodily force (punching / kicking) can rise to a felony level as well and it's not because your some karate ninja. If you can't stop yourself after the guy falls down from your first punch and you continue to beat the poor guy to a pulp cauising serious injury you also commit Aggravated Assault (Felony).

A guy who commits the rape and a guy who tried that was stopped (as in your other example) still gets the same felony punishement. Lets take it a step further and say the bad guy uses a knife to attempt to commit the rape but somone walks around the corner and spooks him off before the rape.... Yup its now aggravated because of the use of the weapon and he gets the higher punishment even if he didn't complete the act. Yes complete vs attempt may reduce a F2to a F3 or so on due to the fact the crime was not completed but a attempt sexual assault would be considered a crime of violence and could be subject to enhanced sentencing rasining the punishement over the normal F3 range.

It does not matter if its a gun, brick, knife, bat, tire iron, wrench, hammer, screwdriver, nail gun, pipe, crow bar......... and the list could go on. Can we all move on now?

 

[bogon48]

Before we move on, I'll note that here in VA the use of a firearm is treated differently than other weapons and has mandatory sentencing. They also abolished parole here several years ago. If you do the crimes, you do the time. Prisons cost a lot, but you keep the guys out of circulation.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-53.1

 

[NMPOPS]

First Conspiracy takes two. You can't conspire with yourself. Second most states have "Firearms Enhancements" which add prison time to any crime that is committed while armed.

Last most stated will also up the charge if you are armed with a knife, bat or other weapon. Such as Assault Vs Assault with a Deadly Weapon Vs Assault with a Deadly Weapon (Firearm Enhancement) each upgrade adds years to sentence.

The big problem is getting the courts to enforce the law. Firearms Enhancements are often dealt away in pre-trial agreements!

 

[Tcruse]

My claim is that we need to make sure that 1) every crime gets investigated and criminals punished (not necessarily harsh punishment, but something and in a timely manner); 2) Laws that we are not willing to spend the effort on to enforce should be removed; 3) Law Enforcement and Legal System in general must be absolutely above board on everything they do. (Held to a higher standard, and treated accordingly)

The issue that I have no solution for is the individual that has very little or nothing to loose. Confinement may be a life style upgrade for some. Sad but I think it is true. I do not think more government welfare will help but probably make the issue increase.

The gun is merely a tool that both Good Guys and Bad Guys use, not really something that is part of the solution.