Should you count on BGs morale breaking?

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We had an incident here in Oregon the other day where a 36 y-o father got whupped on by up to ten+ punks after wading into a fight trying to rescue his 14 y-o son caught up in an incident that started two weeks ago as a bump in a school hallway.

I thought had it been me looking at those odds, at the minimum I would have been brandishing, as a felony assault and riot was taking place. One of the punks was wielding a knife. Then I thought to myself, there are ten or more of these "disrespected" punks and I usually carry 7+1 in a 1911 with one spare eight rounder on the reload. God forbid, but if they forced me to fire, and they didn't break contact, I'd be forced into a reload.

Not for the first time I saw the smarter part of the theory behind a modern wondernine. How much should I count on the will of a pack of jackals breaking when I might exhaust my first mag without being able to hit them all? Or should I rethink carrying a CZ-85 or XD or some other 15+1 weapon?
 
It is unlikely that you will have to down 10 people (with whatever gun) before they either a) take you down by rushing you or b) all run away. Going 10-1 close range will either result in a few things, taking down all 10 isn't one of them. I'll stick with the 1911.
 
If you needed all 15 shots, those punks would probably be all over you before you've had a chance to fire of even half of your ammo capacity. I don't think I'll be changing my choice of carrying a 1911 anytime soon.
 
If you needed all 15 shots, those punks would probably be all over you before you've had a chance to fire of even half of your ammo capacity.
Click to expand...

I dunno, I can empty a 15 rnd mag accurately (at closer ranges ;) ) in well under 2 seconds. Of course, thats just one target but still...

I usually carry an 8+1 weapon myself, but ammo doesn't last long.

:)
 
People riot because it's fun. Two or three rounds into it, they generally begin to think it's not so fun and they run away.

Of course, it's always good to have unarmed skills and other tools at your command. OC grenades, anyone:)
 
A long time ago a sensei told us that in a gang situation take out the biggest baddest guy first in the messiest way possible. It'll at least make the rest think, "Man, I don't want to end up like that."

I'm thinkin' head shot. Messy sudden suspension of aggressive actions coupled with the high probability his buddies will end up with bits and pieces of him on them.
 
Brandishing would probably do it. Mobs aren't brave.

Dropping the first 2-3 guys (because your shooting is faster than their brains & feet will resolve the assault.

In mob mentality, there are just one or two ringleaders -the rest are mindless (though dangerous) followers. Shoot the leader and the chickens will run.
 
Folks, you're assuming at least some partly rational behavior on the part of the gang. If (as is likely in many areas) they're high on booze or dope of some kind, they may not be able to think: in fact, they may not be able to take in the sight of two or three of their friends screaming and falling with bullets in them - their mental processes will have been so slowed by whatever substance they've been abusing that they literally can't make any quick decisions. Under such circumstances, accurate shooting, with as few shots per suspect as possible (to save ammo), coupled with fast and fancy footwork to get out of harm's way and open the range, may be the only things that will save you...
 
You got five people around you, you present and fire into the nearest threat. At which point the rest of the gang starts screaming "Don't Shoot!"

People in mobs are in mobs because they have no spine to work on their own.

The only reason why I dare make such comments is because I grew up in N side Houston around a bunch of punks like these.

If that's not enough for you then either:
1. Carry two spare mags for peace of mind.
2. Realize that if they are going to fight even after you have shot 7+1 rounds even a "wonder 9's" capacity will not save you. Like someone mentioned earlier, they will close in on you before you get to the 9th round.
 
Since you can never really know what is going on in the mind of another, don't expect that the mob will do what you think they will.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
 
DOn't count on it, but on the other hand, it is proven numerous times that, unless they are all high on something, they'll flee like chickens once teh ringleaders are disposed of or enough die to make it real in their brains...
 
As great as the liklihood that they will all run like hell before a reload is necessary, the chance that they will not flee is still there. You cannot assume anything. What you can do is practice for the worst case scenario.

--tdow
 
Let me put it to you this way: if you want to carry a high-capacity gun (and don't mind shelling out for the magazines) more power to you. I carry an unloaded Glock 30 (as per the laws in my state) in a fanny pack and a knife. I would probably use the knife before the gun if I were surprised and assaulted. Obviously, observing the action and choosing to walk into it is different.

I would say the capacity is further down the list of considerations than reliability, accuracy, power, and your personal preference. If you don't shoot any of the hi-cap guns as well as the one you carry now, I wouldn't advise trading that comfort for more rounds. IF all other things were equal, then of course more rounds are better than fewer rounds.

If you walk into the mob and attempt to separate them physically, however, you will be too close and probably surrounded to be able to shoot everybody before one or two get you, if they're truly determined. If they're brave and determined, I question why they're attacking a kid in a pack.

There's no gun you can carry that will get you out of absolutely anything.
 
Count on it?

No.

Realize it is a very likely outcome?

Yes.

Either way, plan ahead and act accordingly.
 
I've stood down a "mob" of four once, they had at least two hammers, I had a knife. We were in a subway car, they couldn't get behind me...that helped a LOT.

They backed down.

If I had a gun, I'd draw that. If a mob makes any attempt to surround me once they see a gun, the leader or whoever's closest is gonna take one to the brainpan. But I don't think it'll get to that - last time, staying calm and looking determined worked well enough, add a drawn gun to that and the odds I'd need to shoot are low.
 
There's no "one size fits all" in human reactions to threats. Odds are, a group which expects no particular resistance will pause if a pistol is offered. This may not be true for a bunch of irate drunks.

The odds are high that the sound of a shot or several will cause flight for most of any group, drunk or not.

Regardless, you never forget the basics of checking your six, creating distance and establishing priority of targets.

Art
 
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