Shoulder holsters in Viet Nam?

[Monkeyleg]

Watching the news coverage from Iraq, it seems like only officers carry pistols in shoulder holsters. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm wondering if shoulder rigs were used in Viet Nam and, if so, by whom.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Armor crews, army aviation (helos and fixed wing), your spec ops guys to name a few.

 

[Pat McCoy]

Many of the "Tunnel Rats" also used shoulder holsters in RVN.

 

[psyopspec]

Pilots.

 

[countertop]

My Father In law was a tank commander (not sure of his rank then, he retired as a Col. years later) in Vietnam and wore a shoulder holster. He still has it (and wears it).

 

[GLOCK19XDSC]

Medics.

 

[damyankee]

My best friend is a Capt. in the 172nd striker brigade, he doesn't shoulder holster his .45....a present from his cop dad

p.s. with all the combat gear I think he tucks it(last resort weap), not sure though, you know what ill ask.

 

[Old NFO]

All Navy flight crews also carried shoulder holsters if not flying with LP-1 or Seek kits. Only problem was the cheap ass Victory .38 I had to put IN the holster... Rusted, rounds corroded, etc.

Come to think of it, most of the River Rats used shoulder holsters for their 1911's too.

 

[rwc]

My father was a Huey pilot in Vietnam and wore a .38 revolver in a shoulder holster.

 

[Walter]

Many of the "Tunnel Rats" also used shoulder holsters in RVN.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the few times I went into tunnels,
I carried a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in the other. Both my hands
were out in front of me as I wormed my way through the tunnels. Most of the
tunnels I went into were so tight, there was no way I could have reached back under
my arm to draw a pistol out of a shoulder holster.

Walter
L 3/26 9th MAB
L 3/1
RVN 1969, 1970

 

[Abby]

As far as the holster in Iraq...

1- more officers than enlisted guys have pistols as their issue weapon
2- a greater percentage of officers than of enlisted guys have desk jobs

The policy everywhere *I* went in Iraq is that one must always have a weapon. If you weren't going outside the wire (and it wasn't a camp that required body armor all the time), and you had a pistol, the easiest solution for wandering around the camp or working at a desk all day is a shoulder holster.

There's probably some super-high speed piece of gear that renders this statement untrue...but the average shoulder holster does NOT work well with body armor and tight spaces in the up-armored humvee. I did NOT see many real military-issue shoulder holsters, so folks were pretty much stuck with what they could find or get sent from home.

I didn't work in a situation where I could really carry my pistol anywhere but in a thigh rig until right before I left Iraq. If I went over again (Power That Be please take note - that's NOT a request), I'd buy a cheap belt slide for the M9. I saw a few guys carrying that way, and other than having to flip their blouses up to demonstrate they HAD a firearm occasionally, it was definitely the best way to go.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Thanks for all the replies.

The reason for my question goes back to an old thread about a co-worker's claim that he'd been drafted to Viet Nam (he was). And then another thread where I questioned his assertion that machine guns are more lethal than assault rifles or other semi-auto's.

And then another thread in which I asked about his claim to have been involved in Operation Phoenix.

The topic of shoulder rigs came up the other day when we were discussing the possible outcomes of the WI elections. He made some comment about me carrying a shoulder rig, and I tried to tell him how much tailoring it requires to carry a shoulder rig under pretty much any sportcoat or suitcoat.

His reply was that his only experience with shoulder holsters was when he was with G2 in Operation Phoenix in Vietnam.

Once again: he's exactly my age (55). He was drafted in 1970, did two years in Berlin, and then volunteered for Viet Nam.

I see no point in disputing this guy's story. Rather, I'd like to have my own perspective on it from those who served, and just keep those perspectives in mind when I work with him.

 

[1 old 0311]

The guys who were drafted were only in for two years. He did two years in Berlin THEN Vietnam? That would put the time at 1973? RIIIIIIIIIGHT

 

[Vitamin G]

He made some comment about me carrying a shoulder rig, and I tried to tell him how much tailoring it requires to carry a shoulder rig under pretty much any sportcoat or suitcoat.

Really? I've been wearing my alessi bodyguard with a BHP for 2 years now and I've needed nothing adjusted or tailored.

 

[sacp81170a]

The Security Police who guard Air Force one wear shoulder rigs under the jacket of their Class A's, IIRC. When I was in, they carried the standard issue M-15 Combat Masterpiece in .38 cal. I assume they carry the M-9 now. (This from a buddy who was stationed at Langley back in the '80's).

 

[Leatherneck]

I carried a 1911 in a shoulder rig on every one of my 410 missions in Vietnam. That was in addition to the snubby .38 suicide device in my survival vest.

TC

 

[isp2605]

The guys who were drafted were only in for two years. He did two years in Berlin THEN Vietnam? That would put the time at 1973? RIIIIIIIIIGHTT

Could it be he was one of those who re-enlisted or extended after being drafted? The military gave a sales pitch as you got close to your ETS.

 

[damyankee]

Blackhawk thigh holster. read previous post on this thread.

 

[Aikibiker]

I am on a US military base in Kosovo, which for reasons that escape us is classified as a high threat environment.

The Army folks here who have pistols seem to use a wide variety of holsters bought at the PX or through internet. I have seen both enlisted and officers walking around with M9s in everything from Safariland tac thigh holsters to these really cheap fake leather shoulder holsters they sell at the PX dirt cheap with about every variation in between.

On the rare occaisions I am issued an M9 (security contractor) I carry it in my company issued Uncle Mike Pro Series belt holster. I would prefer a thigh holster, but have limited options.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Vitamin G, isp2605 got it right about my co-worker. He was drafted, and then he enlisted.

Sounds like it's not just the officers who carried in shoulder holsters, so my co-worker wasn't lying.

As for tailoring, none of my sport coats or suitcoats will conceal any kind of holstered gun, whether I'm using a shoulder rig or an IWB. The coats are just too fitted.

When I carry in a shoulder rig, it's a .45 in a Galco Miami Classic. I have a leather vest I bought two sizes too large, and then had a tailor fit the vest around the holster. Even at that, I have to wear a sportcoat over the vest.

 

[FrogClan]

His reply was that his only experience with shoulder holsters was when he was with G2 in Operation Phoenix in Vietnam.

Once again: he's exactly my age (55). He was drafted in 1970, did two years in Berlin, and then volunteered for Viet Nam.

I see no point in disputing this guy's story. Rather, I'd like to have my own perspective on it from those who served, and just keep those perspectives in mind when I work with him.

Very possibly a true story. While there were only a few Americans left there during '72 and the final pull out in '73 (relative to, say, 1969) there were some. While the odds are low.... someone had to be there, so why wasn't it him?

It was common for draftees to be given the option of enlisting for 3 years, and getting some small say in their fate in return, instead of being drafted for 2 years when they reported in response to their draft notice.

Phoenix morphed over the years. By the time in question it was mostly about US advisors to the Vietnamese. And not every guy associated with Phoenix was on the pointy end... somebody had to staff the HQ. So, someone claiming to have been part of Phoenix is not necessarily claiming he was part of a team.

 

[Monkeyleg]

FrogClan, I was asking about Phoenix in a thread I posted weeks back.

After reading the replies, I casually asked my co-worker just what it was that he did in Operation Phoenix. He told me that his job was to almost live with the villagers so as to find out who the higher-ranking VC were, as well as the political types who gave the orders. Basically, he said, he was a "listening post." He also said that he pretty much worked alone, and wasn't part of any particular team.

 

[Roadkill]

My experience is that someone who still talks to other than family or close friends about a stupid war over thirty years ago is either in serious need of counseling or full of manure. The last statement you attributed to him is so far out it barely is worth examining. There is no way he could have learned Vietnamese in the time allocated to have a clue what the villagers were saying much less discover the bad guys, being alone as a listening post simply means there would have been no witnesses when they slipped into his bedroom and slit his throat or have taken him for a long walk into the jungle and shot him. Not that I really give a damn cause the only thing I lost there was my virginity and don't really want it back but if this dude is 55, same as me, then he enlisted at eighteen, same as me, was in Germany for two years, went to RVN learned Vietnamese and became part of a very discreet program before the war shut down. Empathy, maybe pity is more in line than examination. If all us Vietnam vets had done what we say we had done then the US flag would still be flying in Siagon.

 

[Ala Dan]

Didn't General Westmoreland carry a sidearm in a shoulder rig~?

 

[isp2605]

While there were only a few Americans left there during '72 and the final pull out in '73

One of my best friends was killed in VN in late 1972. He was Infantry altho at this late date I don't recall which unit.

He told me that his job was to almost live with the villagers so as to find out who the higher-ranking VC were,

That is quite possible. There were small units assigned to small villages. A Troop I use to work with was USMC and during his 2nd tour he was in a 3 man unit doing that kind of work.