SHTF Rifle--what about a .22?

[Cosmoline]

..at close range. I've been paying attention to accuracy stats posted in American Rifleman for years, and it's rare to find a non-match .22 LR that's

Pick up a CZ 452 Lux and you may change your mind on this point. I was astonished at how accurate the rifle is, and the tangent sight eliminates the rainbow trajectory out to 200 meters.

I'm not so sure it would be useless against the theoretical Chinese paratroops, either. It's very quiet and accurate. As a sniping weapon for inside 200 meters it has real advantages. At 100 meters away you'd be very hard pressed to hear much of a bang at all, let alone to locate the shot. It might also be useful to distract an enemy squad or draw them in.

That said, just yesterday it took me three shots to bring down a bull red squirrel--so maybe .22LR does have its limitations

 

[foghornl]

I think I'm pretty well fixed up in the .22LR category...Got an OLD Marlin 99,yeah, the old one that holds 16 or 17 .22LR's in the under-barrel tube, a Ruger Mk 2, and a Single-Six with both .22LR & .22Mag cylinders.

 

[sumpnz]

WRT to the "urban sniper" situation IIRC in Sarajevo most of the snipers were using .22lr rifles. Very quiet, and within it's range limitations adequatly lethal. They usually went for neck shots.

 

[LAK]

sumpnz

WRT to the "urban sniper" situation IIRC in Sarajevo most of the snipers were using .22lr rifles. Very quiet, and within it's range limitations adequatly lethal.

.... Ditto in Northern Ireland.

 

[Roadkill]

I read a long time ago about a trapper/hunter/gold miner in the Yukon in the 1910s, his yearly stock of ammo was one box of 30.06 and a case of .22. Said he would never shoot more than a half dozen moose, elk, or bear a year. Everything else was with a .22. Also read somewhere that the Eskimo's favorite was a .270 for large game and a .22 for the rest. They hunted seals regularly with a .22.

rk

 

[M67]

If we're getting into historical anecdotes, I have one too.

I just reread a book about Norwegian SIS agents during WWII. That is, soldiers from the free Norwegian forces who were seconded to the British Secret Intelligence Service and sent to occupied Norway with short wave radios.

Anyway, one of them was triangulated (as they routinely were) and before he had time to pack up and leave, he saw a line of German troops and Gestapo approaching him while searching the mountainside where he had hidden his transmitter. He had no less than five sub-machineguns in his cave (probably Stens and/or Thompsons, the book doesn't say), but he thought he needed more range so he grabbed a .22 with a peep sight. He evaded all but one of the 300 pursuers. He came face to face with a soldier armed with a Schmeisser, both took cover and exchanged several shots before the German lost. The agent got away by swimming to the next island. In april, right on the Arctic circle.

These agents were the real thing, what Ian Fleming based his somewhat less real James Bond on.

Taking big game with a .22: Humanely or not, it was not uncommon to harvest moose with .22s during the WWII occupation of Norway. The hunters may have had other rifles available, but when there is a death penalty for you and possible concentration camp for your family if you're caught with a gun, I guess noise is an important consideration. Although the occupants were not overly eager to investigate anything that happened in the forest, the investigators had a tendency to disappear...

If I for some reason had to head for them thar hills, my first choice for a long arm would most probably be my CZ 452 and muzzle can. I'd probably stick a short gun in my pocket too, in a surival situation maybe my single action .44 since there are lots of moose in "my" hills. But I don't have any detailed plans for "what to do when the comet strikes", so I would probably waste several seconds in front of the gun safe making up my mind...

 

[FRIENDLY]

.22LR SHTF GUN

Select a .22 lr rifle or handgun plus 30.30 rifle plus whatever is the military caliber at the time in the US which is at the moment 5.56/.223 for ammunition availibilty.

 

[Cosmoline]

Many moose have been taken for subsistence with a .22 as well. One old timer in Willow talked of shooting the moose in the brain and letting the bullet rattle around in there for awhile and the moose would be dead by the morning. Not to nice! And I just hoped he was talking about the old days and not last week. I didn't press the matter

 

[PBIR]

I would say a .22lr would almost be a must have in a survival situation - in addition to a heavier caliber weapon and a sidearm. Just look at the pro's (most already cited)


*Accurate
*Relatively quiet
*Both Rifle and Ammo are:
a. cheap
b. small
c. light
*You can save your bigger ammo for threats and use the .22lr to harvest
modest game.
*Lethal on humans in a worst case scenario.
*Easy to service - not much required.
*Plenty of ammo to stock up on - almost any place that has cartridges at all has .22lr

 

[mustanger98]

M67, What's the title of that book?

 

[M67]

mustanger98, the title of the book is Usynlige soldater, subtitle Nordmenn i Secret Service forteller, published by Aschehoug, Oslo 1990. Author was one of the participants, Bjørn Rørholt.

If that didn't make sense, it translates as "Invisible soldiers, Norwegians in Secret Service tell their story". Most of these guys didn't talk about their experiences at all until as late as the 1990s. They took their vows of secrecy seriously, some of the survivors probably still do. After all, if they hadn't been very good at keeping their mouths shut, they wouldn't have survived in the first place.

Unless you read Norwegian, I'm afraid this is useless information.

 

[mustanger98]

M67, Thanks. But like you said, if you don't read Norwegian... I can see if it's been released in english in the US but, I doubt it.

 

[0luke1]

I think there's an article in the current Accurate Rifle magazine about dropping Cape Buffalo with a .22. Shot through the arm pit.

 

[jercamp45]

A Ruger 10/22 is a most useful tool!!

If life got really interesting, I'd take mine fure sure!!
The .22 is not a powerhouse battle rifle, but the objective to survive is a mad max scenerio is to feed yourself without being noticed. The .22 can be a great tool for that, alot of ammo can be carried and stashed, and though it certainly is not a combat gun, it can be used for emergency defense and when coupled with an improvised suppressive device...offense, if such activities are required.
For pure combat you would want something else, but for general survival duties, there is not much better than a good .22 rifle!!
Jercamp45

 

[Onmilo]

Well the S is always HTF for some reason or another at my hut and when the little Mrs. starts wagging her finger at me I grab a Model 63 Winchester .22 and head for the woods so I guess I can recommend a .22 for when SHTF!

 

[Warren]

Dume...

Great first post!

 

[PBIR]

yourself to choose between a fighting rifle or a .22lr, when a .22lr conversion unit in the AR-15 offers you both? How are you going to carry both a .22 rifle and a 30-06, along with adequate ammo for both...

You'd still be carrying ammo for two rifles (.22lr & .223). In an emergency calling for the heavier caliber what happens if you're out squirrel hunting - gonna have time to swap uppers and change mags? Faster to bring the other rifle off your back. How much heavier is a small .22 than a .22lr upper? Not much I'd reckon.

The beauty of America is to each his own.

 

[PBIR]

n/m

 

[Warner]

Names may change.

But.

AR15 + conversion unit + suppressor + insults usually adds up to GinKid, Hardin or now....."dume".

Any bets?

 

[mustanger98]

Wonder when he's going to bring out his assault wheelbarrow. The reference against .30-06 is telling.

 

[444]

To me, you can have the best of both worlds by using a .22LR handgun. You can have a big game/self defense rifle in your hands or on a sling and the handgun in a holster.
Yes, a .22LR rifle is more "powerful" than a .22LR handgun, but from a practical sense I don't think there would be a whole lot of difference. If you can kill the animal with a .22 rifle, odds are you can kill it with a .22 pistol. Of course you have to have the skills to shoot the pistol well enough to score hits. But that isn't a big issue because until that time comes, you can practice an almost infinite amount for a couple hundred dollars. You can do a few weeks of serious practice on one Wal-Mart 550 round carton.

 

[Wildalaska]

Ive sold probably 25 CZ .22 rifles in the past year....for less than $200 its the utlimate...

On the other hand my Marlin 39 A will shoot rings around a CZ...but then again, its about $150 more.....


WildimdyingtosaymorebutigottoshutupAlaska

 

[jAK-47]

If these were already mentioned, my apologies. The things I like about using the .22LR for defensive situation.
1) Lots of ammo at comparatively little weight.
2) No recoil for fast folow-up and flinch-free shooting. If you had a line of zombies coming at you, multiple quick head shots would be pretty easy.
3) Extreme accuracy.
4) Readily available models and ammo.
5) Cheap ammo for LOTS of practice.
6) "Quiet".
7) Dependable.
8) Some models come with hi-cap capability.
9) Light to carry.

One thing I thought of is if the SHTF BIG time, a young family member could easily use the rilfe to give you a second "line of defense". I don't see my 13 year old daughter lugging and firing my AK or FAL. My personal opinion is that if things got that bad the quality of life might be pretty awful BUT humans tend to want to survive and fight to the death so...

I don't want to start a flame here but I have a Saiga .223 in my trunk. It is there for plinking/varmint opportunities BUT there could be a situation some day where a rifle in my trunk COULD be used to stop some nut from doing harm; I know about the odds against needing/using a rifle in your trunk to defend yourself or take out a nut, and the potential for getting shot by an LEO if you take a rifle out of your trunk in a mall parking lot but... Maybe a .22LR would be a better choice for my trunk since it is NOT evil looking and, in a lot of cases, would be just as effective as a .223.

I think we all agree that a .22LR rifle is something that should be part of everyone's collection; I have a bolt .22LR that I bought in 1975 and it shoots 1" 50 yard groups with the original irons. Maybe I'll put a fixed 3 scope on it! Actually, I'm going to get a semi and look into hi-cap mag availability. I used to own a .22LR rifle with an 18 round mag. I know there's a model that takes 50 rounders; don't know the availabilty or price though.

QUESTION - What .22LR ammo would be the BEST for this particular application? And is there a .22LR rifle readily available that takes hi-cap mags?

Thanks,
jAK-47

 

[JohnBT]

"And is there a .22LR rifle readily available that takes hi-cap mags?"


Not exactly a rifle, but would 720 rounds be enough? John

www.machineguns.co.nz/products.shtml

 

[Richardson]

Names may change.

But.

AR15 + conversion unit + suppressor + insults usually adds up to GinKid, Hardin or now....."dume".

Any bets?

That was my first thought... I think it's too early to tell, but if it is Hardin, it'll become quite obvious.