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Sig P-210 clones
- Thread starter wardog
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Walt Sherrill
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What makes a P-210 expensive is not the design but the meticulous hand work and fitting. They are like Swiss watches.
(I had one for several years, but needed a good used pickup more...)
Clones wouldn't be worth the effort, as they wouldn't have the fit and finish that makes the P-210 so exceptional.
There are some less-expensive surplus models, known as M-49s, which were military guns (Danish?) These are well made and nearly the match of the standard P-210s. They sell for about $800-$900, compared to $1500-$1700 for a used low-end P-210.
As I've said before, "there ain't no free lunches."
(I had one for several years, but needed a good used pickup more...)
Clones wouldn't be worth the effort, as they wouldn't have the fit and finish that makes the P-210 so exceptional.
There are some less-expensive surplus models, known as M-49s, which were military guns (Danish?) These are well made and nearly the match of the standard P-210s. They sell for about $800-$900, compared to $1500-$1700 for a used low-end P-210.
As I've said before, "there ain't no free lunches."
George Hill
Member
If memory serves from about 15 years ago:
If you hold an M-49 next to a P210, you can only see a few slight differences... mainly in the markings and in the grips. Other than that, they are nearly identical. I remember the big differences were what you felt when you cycled the actions and pulled the trigger.
If you hold an M-49 next to a P210, you can only see a few slight differences... mainly in the markings and in the grips. Other than that, they are nearly identical. I remember the big differences were what you felt when you cycled the actions and pulled the trigger.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Get a CZ-75? That's probably slightly tongue-in-cheek advice, but its not bad advice. (I think the CZ-75B line is one of the best "bang for buck" deals going, and people are slowly getting wise to it.)
I've had a P-210-6 and HAVE several CZs (and related models)... but, while the CZ-75 is a great gun, its not even close to the P-210.
About the only thing the CZ-75 (or 75B) shares in common with the P-210 is a slide "inside the frame," which probably doesn't contribute that much to the P-210's (or the CZ's) accuracy.
You can also find "slide inside the frame" on Star Firestars, and for less $. The triggers if not already pretty good can be made to be outstanding. (I've had several of those, too. Parts are the only weakness -- some are hard to find.) My S&W 4006 also has slide-inside-the-frame features, too.
I've had a P-210-6 and HAVE several CZs (and related models)... but, while the CZ-75 is a great gun, its not even close to the P-210.
About the only thing the CZ-75 (or 75B) shares in common with the P-210 is a slide "inside the frame," which probably doesn't contribute that much to the P-210's (or the CZ's) accuracy.
You can also find "slide inside the frame" on Star Firestars, and for less $. The triggers if not already pretty good can be made to be outstanding. (I've had several of those, too. Parts are the only weakness -- some are hard to find.) My S&W 4006 also has slide-inside-the-frame features, too.
It is a "Big Stretch" comparing the CZ 75 to the P210!
A CZ 75 is a very good gun, I own one, and I agree they are a value for the price paid. As an alternative, why not consider the German Police Surplus Sig P220 9mm; I saw one LNIB at one of the local dealers here for $399.00, which is the going rate for a NIB CZ 75B. IMHO, the P220 9mm is the better piece.
A CZ 75 is a very good gun, I own one, and I agree they are a value for the price paid. As an alternative, why not consider the German Police Surplus Sig P220 9mm; I saw one LNIB at one of the local dealers here for $399.00, which is the going rate for a NIB CZ 75B. IMHO, the P220 9mm is the better piece.
Sean Smith
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CZ-75 is hardly a P210 clone, aside from the rail setup it is a completely different gun. There are no P210 clones, and there would be no point in buying one... the design is sound, but no better than any others. It is the quality of workmanship, hand fitting and materials that set the P210 apart from everything else.
Having shot various P210s and owned a Danish military M49, I can tell you there were the following differences:
1. The M49 I had was not as tight as a commercial P210, but it had been shot so much that this was as likely caused by use rather than any design difference. It was still tighter than most production handguns, and vastly smoother than most expensive 1911s. The slide-to-frame fit was still tight enough that you had to use light lubricating oils; greases would gum up the action and induce malfuctions.
Interestingly enough, this was the ONLY way I ever found to cause the gun to not work; it would work dirty and would feed hollowpoints just fine. Wincehster 127gr +P+ worked great out of that gun.
2. The trigger was marginally heavier than a commercial P210, about 4 pounds instead of 3.5ish. That could have been intentional, or it could have been just a fluke or function of age. The trigger was still better than any custom 1911 I've handled to date, aside from some very expensive custom-built bullseye guns.
Otherwise, the guns are identical. They were all made by Sig in Switzerland by the same folks, just the markings and minor details are different. The main real difference is that the M49 guns were issed and used, but functionally they are still superb and are truly built like tanks. The one time I shot a respectable 25 yard bullseye score was with a M49, cheap S&B ammo and alot of practice... even considering their age and use, they are superbly accurate.
Having shot various P210s and owned a Danish military M49, I can tell you there were the following differences:
1. The M49 I had was not as tight as a commercial P210, but it had been shot so much that this was as likely caused by use rather than any design difference. It was still tighter than most production handguns, and vastly smoother than most expensive 1911s. The slide-to-frame fit was still tight enough that you had to use light lubricating oils; greases would gum up the action and induce malfuctions.
Interestingly enough, this was the ONLY way I ever found to cause the gun to not work; it would work dirty and would feed hollowpoints just fine. Wincehster 127gr +P+ worked great out of that gun.
2. The trigger was marginally heavier than a commercial P210, about 4 pounds instead of 3.5ish. That could have been intentional, or it could have been just a fluke or function of age. The trigger was still better than any custom 1911 I've handled to date, aside from some very expensive custom-built bullseye guns.
Otherwise, the guns are identical. They were all made by Sig in Switzerland by the same folks, just the markings and minor details are different. The main real difference is that the M49 guns were issed and used, but functionally they are still superb and are truly built like tanks. The one time I shot a respectable 25 yard bullseye score was with a M49, cheap S&B ammo and alot of practice... even considering their age and use, they are superbly accurate.
Walt Sherrill
Member
A CZ 75 is a very good gun, I own one, and I agree they are a value for the price paid. As an alternative, why not consider the German Police Surplus Sig P220 9mm; I saw one LNIB at one of the local dealers here for $399.00, which is the going rate for a NIB CZ 75B. IMHO, the P220 9mm is the better piece.
I'm not sure I agree.
I've had a 220 in .45, and shot several 9mm 220s. They're nice guns, but relatively big and wide, and have a single-stack mag. I prefer the potential for hi-caps and the ability to carry "cocked and locked," with the CZ. (I also don't like the European-style mag release on the heel of the grip on the 9mm 220s.) I don't know whether finding mags for these 220s is a problem or not; might be.
Fit and finish are good on the 9mm SIGs, but they really don't shoot any better than most of the CZs I've shot, and they certainly don't shoot better than my 85 Combat, which can often be bought for $400 - $450 with a warranty. (While you're not likely to need a warranty with either of those guns, its a nice thing to have.)
If you've got the hots for a SIG P-210, save for a 210-6. Just wait. (The 210-6 has one of the best triggers.)
George Hill
Member
Yeah but the Sig P220 nice is a big fat gun and the CZ-75 is much more svelt... Better sized for a 9MM IMO.
But don't listen to me... I love the Beretta 92FS.
But don't listen to me... I love the Beretta 92FS.
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