Sig versus ???

[Redcoat3340]

Are there any 9mm categories that Sig doesn't have either the best or as good as the best in? (Out of the box, not talking about custom guns or guns [like my Shield] that need new sights, new triggers, or new grips to be better than just okay.)

I mean in terms of striker fired...is there anything "better" than an 320 (in whichever modular size you want?

Polymer DA/SA hammer fired....more gun for the money than the 2022.

Full size 9s....226 or 220 in 9? (Okay, I like shooting my BHP more than the 226....but it isn't a "better" gun and I needed to remove the mag safety, bob the hammer, and get a trigger job to make it really great.)

Compacter than full size 9s....228/229?

Single stacks....P6/225, 239?

Plus the mini-nines....of which I have none....the subcompact 320 and my Shield (after upgrades) are plenty small for my carry needs.

About the only category they don't have an entry in (and it isn't 9mm but .380) is a DA/SA breech-locked .380. The 230/232 is as good a blowback as there is and the 250 a fine DAO. Now if they only made the 320 in 380......

And yes, I've got the Sig-ness and therefore am having a hard time justifying a new gun. Was thinking about a Walther PPQ but the 320 is as good or better. Same with a PX4 and Glock. I'm probably the only guy in the world without a Glock in the safe.

About the only thing on my wish list these days is a Walther P4....

 

[hdwhit]

Are there any 9mm categories that Sig doesn't have either the best or as good as the best in?

Yes, price.

 

[RX-79G]

320 - Walther PPQ, HK VP9, G17
SP2022 for the money - CZ P-07, Beretta PX4, SAR B6P, MR9
P226 Full size - Beretta 92, CZ-75, HK P-30, Grand Power, Arex, CZ99, Sphinx, P99, P-09
Compact P228 - CZ P-01, P2000, G19, CZ P-07, FNS
Single stack P6 - PPS, 3913, P7M8, K9/T9

No one makes a locked breech DA/SA .380 that I can think of.

I don't think US-made Sigs, with all the quality problems in the last several years, are worth the elevated prices. Berettas are bargains for that sort of quality level, and CZs products are really good while keeping dimensions small.

 

[Telekinesis]

"Best" is too subjective without a qualifying statement of what the goal is. Sig makes great guns, but I wouldn't call them the best unless I knew what we were looking for specifically.

People have different goals for their guns. Just sticking with production guns, if I was looking for ergonomics I'd go with a Walther PPQ, if I wanted durability I'd go with a Glock. If I wanted accuracy I'd go with a P7 (or something else with a fixed barrel). Small size for CCW, I'd look to a Shield or even a S&W 642. If I was more interested in high round counts, or using the gun for several classes and getting to the point where I needed to do more than routine maintenance, I'd go with a Glock because I can detail strip the gun with just a punch, swap out anything that is broken, and get it back together in about 5 minutes. Have you ever tried to detail strip a sig? Nested roll pins on a folded steel slide aren't my idea of fun (granted, that's older Sigs).

And as hdwhit mentioned, Sigs have always been pricy. It's hard to recommend someone buy a new Sig when they can get the same functionality (reliability, accuracy, etc) with a Glock or M&P.

I will say that my Sigs (older, W.German roll marks) have some great DA triggers (but if I include revolvers they are outclassed by my S&W 19). They're supposedly a hair quieter with a suppressor as well. I love my Sigs and they're great guns, but even so, I'm hard pressed to call them the best overall.

 

[Everready73]

agree with PPQ over P320... Also the CZ P09 and P07 over the 2022.. Everything is subjective though, just my opinion

 

[jjones45]

Imho the ppq is superior to the sig p320c in the striker game and can be had for the same price. I also like Cz's metal framed hammer fired guns a tad bit more than sigs and they are cheaper. Cz p07 is normally the same price as a sp2022 and if you shop around you can get a beretta px4 and FNX 9 for roughly the same in the da/sa polymer pistol world and I wouldn't say any are better than the next. The sig p229 is probably my favorite sig 200 series pistol but if push came to a shove I'd still take a Cz p01 over it as well. Not that I can say the p01 is actually a better gun, I just like it more for personal reasons. The single stack p225 is a sweet gun and probably the coolest da/sa ss9 on the market, but at >$750 that's steep for what you get. The sig p220 carry is my second favorite sig and I don't think I'd take any da/sa 45 over that one, but we're talking 9mm so.....Sig is a good firearms manufacturer, but they are not my favorite and definitely not the most price friendly. With that said I have always kept a sig or 2 or 3 in my collection lol. Just my opinions and I'm sure others will disagree

 

[ATLDave]

Sig makes high-quality, reliable firearms with ergonomics that nobody* else uses. Or wants. Also, bore height. If you really love bore height - can't get enough of it - Sig is your team.

* I guess there's that one Turkish company that makes knock-off Sigs.

 

[Redcoat3340]

Thanks to all who commented.

True Confession: I was trying to be a bit provocative as I needed a better point of view on what's good. Suffering from "Sig-ness" kinda puts blinders on one's perspective. Now I've got some great input on what else to be looking for....what other pistols to try out and consider and which Sigs I may sell to finance other guns.

I've got some decent guns...BHP, 92s, Colt, Walther, and even a Daewoo....but this expands my horizons and gets me out of my rut.

And just as a note, there are a few locked breech .380s out there. Sig's 250 is in 380 (DA0), and Walther makes one in their PK380. There are a few others, especially Star, but I'm shying away from a gun no longer made as parts are tough to get. The locked breech is really easy to shoot as the slide racks much lighter than blowbacks, so my wife likes them.

Again, thanks for the input so far. (And I'm still looking for a P4 that isn't way way overpriced.)

 

[jjones45]

Sig makes high-quality, reliable firearms with ergonomics that nobody* else uses. Or wants. Also, bore height. If you really love bore height - can't get enough of it - Sig is your team.

* I guess there's that one Turkish company that makes knock-off Sigs.

That whole bore height issue is really oversold these days lol. I once believed in that years ago and after shooting many "high bore axis" handguns I've learned that it's just something for people to nitpick about on gun brands they don't like. The actual bore axis on my p320 is the same as my Cz 75, but the Cz's sights are lower. The sig p229 in 40/357 sig I had was a way softer shooter than my low bore axis glock 23/32. The slide height is just another personal preference

 

[ATLDave]

True Confession: I was trying to be a bit provocative as I needed a better point of view on what's good. Suffering from "Sig-ness" kinda puts blinders on one's perspective. Now I've got some great input on what else to be looking for....what other pistols to try out and consider and which Sigs I may sell to finance other guns.

Red', consider investigating what guns are being used to compete at high levels in the practical shooting sports. Given the motivation of competitors to figure out any possible advantage, that's not a bad barometer for the guns that are best at rapid, accurate shooting, high-speed gun manipulation, tolerance to being shot and shot and shot, etc. It's won't tell you as much about what works well when it's dropped in the mud, if that's your main concern, nor about what conceals/carries nicely.

 

[ATLDave]

The actual bore axis on my p320 is the same as my Cz 75, but the Cz's sights are lower. The sig p229 in 40/357 sig I had was a way softer shooter than my low bore axis glock 23/32. The slide height is just another personal preference

The P320 seems much better in that regard than the alloy framed ones.

As for "soft shooting," bore height actually can make a gun feel "softer." More of the recoil goes into rotation of the muzzle, rather than coming straight back into the hand. Doesn't mean it's faster.

 

[jjones45]

I agree. However I can run my sig p320c faster than my glock while getting accurate hits. I'd say it also has a lot to do with the trigger and recoil spring assembly

 

[ATLDave]

While I've been kind of T-I-C in this thread, I would say that the P320 is not really as much of a "special" gun as the P22X series.

 

[ny32182]

I believe that pretty much everyone has handguns down to a science today, and it is hard to go "wrong" (from a reliability and durability standpoint) buying just about anything, from just about any major manufacturer, that is on the market today.

By far, the the most important measure of "best" for you is to pick the gun with the ergonomics, trigger type, and general frame size that wets your whistle, and roll with it. The gun you can manipulate the best is going to be best for you, outside of some corner case applications.

That said, I bought a bunch of Sigs in my early days of handgun ownership when I thought it was cool that the SEALs used them. I still have a few. They always functioned great for me in the few thousand rounds in total I shot through them. They have a couple quirks that I'm no longer fond of however:

1) As ATL dave mentioned, the bore axis is sky high compared to almost anything else on the market. Not a problem if you are only shooting Sigs I guess, but coming back from shooting virtually anything else, the distance between your grip and the sights is very noticeable when you pick up a Sig again.
2) The SP2022 is VERY large and heavy for what it is. Today it would be near the bottom of the list of polymer guns for me if the application was anything other than range shooting; i.e. if you want to carry a mid size polymer gun for the weight savings over metal frame... this isn't your gun. It has the same kind of massive slide as the other Sigs and I guess a lot of metal in the frame as well, because that "plastic" frame is about the heaviest of its kind I've ever seen. Also I could never get mine to reliably lock open on an empty mag... the follower just wouldn't push the slide catch up high enough to work every time no matter what I did.
3) Capacities are 1-2 rounds less than most other designs of equal general size.
4) I understand this is cosmetic; I never shot enough through one gun to know for sure, but, the finish on the barrels wears off VERY quickly. 1k rounds, and it is GONE off the front of the barrel, (and you can probably feel a slight divot with your fingernail as well). Again I don't think anyone has ever attributed any functional problem to this, but, it is unlike any other pistol I've ever shot, and just looks weird.

So, those are my gripes with them, but if they work for you, there is no reason to not use them.

 

[jjones45]

While I've been kind of T-I-C in this thread, I would say that the P320 is not really as much of a "special" gun as the P22X series.

I agree. However it's not really apples to apples. The sig p320 was never made to compete with the sig p22X series, but to compete with the polymer striker market. In my eyes the sig p22X series is no more "special" than the Cz 75 or the beretta 92, just a different flavor

 

[ATLDave]

The sig p320 was never made to compete with the sig p22X series, but to compete with the polymer striker market.

Right. And it was designed, what, 30 years later?

the sig p22X series is no more "special" than the Cz 75 or the beretta 92, just a different flavor

Eh, sort of. There are lots of other pistols with the same basic layout/controls/ergos as the CZ pattern, and a fair number with the same as the Beretta. Nobody else really puts the slide release in the middle of the freaking grip. That's just pure Sig specialness.

 

[gc70]

4) I understand this is cosmetic; I never shot enough through one gun to know for sure, but, the finish on the barrels wears off VERY quickly. 1k rounds, and it is GONE off the front of the barrel, (and you can probably feel a slight divot with your fingernail as well). Again I don't think anyone has ever attributed any functional problem to this, but, it is unlike any other pistol I've ever shot, and just looks weird.

There is no need for concern about the SIG "smile" on barrels. The finish wear you notice is a function of the very tight barrel-to-slide fit on SIGs. This post describes the barrel-to-slide fit, which is shown in this photo.

 

[sirgilligan]

I'm probably the only guy in the world without a Glock in the safe..

I have no Glock, I have no Sig, I have no polymer, I have no striker fired...

I have owned Sig but they are all traded off. I have shot Glocks and liked it well enough.

I am glad you like your Sigs. I think every pistol I own is better right out of the box, but there you go, its just my opinion vs yours.

I do not care if a trigger has some creep, or if the trigger is heavy, what I care about is can I shoot it accurately and precisely and if I can not is it the trigger or the sights or whatever?

I do not believe a Sig or most any can beat the feel of a 1911 trigger, even in a less expensive 1911.

I think a firearm with a safety is superior than one with a decocker. Does that mean that most every Sig then is inferior? Nope, just my opinion.

Now does anything that Cohen touches have 12 million model options with different color schemes, and grips, and sights, etc., Yep.

 

[Varminterror]

The bore axis issue is exaggerated, at least in terms of actual function and performance. Might make them look a little "awkward," and as a Sig fan, it's still still difficult to not notice sometimes. But it really doesn't matter much once lead starts flying.

 

[sigarms228]

I LOVE my SIGs. By far my favorite metal frame DA/SA pistols. I really dig HKs and ULM Walthers too. My CZ SP01 and Gen 2 Glock 19 are gems.

I only bought one classic P series SIG new and that was my P220 in 1996. The rest I bought used or CPO all less than $550 and never a problem with any. My P228 is a Swiss Zurich Police trade in that was graded A+. German P226 in second picture was $499 a few years back, looked almost new and came with original case, test target, and what a sweet and smooth trigger. I got a great price on my SP2022 and it is one of the German ones with the Ilaflon finished slide. Terrific pistol for the price with a great reputation for reliability/durability/accuracy and makes a big difference size wise with the flat magazine base plates which make it easy to conceal in a hybrid holster. There are a ton of great buys on SIGs if one is patient.

 

[eldon519]

For the size and weight, I never thought any of the P-series were really standout carry pieces. Seemed like most were a bit big or heavy for the capacity/caliber/barrel length. The new polymer 320s are nice and offer some models that seem like much better carry guns in terms of size and weight. I have tried them, and they are nice, but I did not find myself compelled to own one.

For what it is worth, the P2000 is my favorite. I chose it to replace my Glock 19 after trying the P320, P30, PPQ, and M&P9c. It works for me but might not be for everyone.

 

[Old Dog]

View media item 288 sorta like SIG pistols. Never found the "high bore axis" to affect fast, accurate shooting. I've been buying plenty of SIGs over the years, and still haven't noticed any issues whatsover with the "U.S.-made SIGs with all the quality problems in the last several years" ... perhaps I'm just lucky. I haven't found any other auto-pistols out there that are substantially or categorically "better" than SIG's offerings, but if one wants to branch out, certainly Beretta and CZ made some fine semi-auto pistols. I even like some of the FNH pistols (my Hi-Power and FNX).

 

[tommy.duncan]

I have 10 sigs in my safe, and they are my favorites.
2 P220 (Both in 10mm)
3 P226 (9mm Elite, 40S&W, 357sig)
1 P228
1 P229 Equinox
1 P238
1 P290
and 1 Mosquito
Sigs are my carry and range favorites (except the Mosquito). The mosquito shoots fine when you can find CCI Mini Mag.

 

[RX-79G]

And just as a note, there are a few locked breech .380s out there.

Lots of 'em. The Colt Mustang has been around a long time. But none of them are DA/SA.

Nobody else really puts the slide release in the middle of the freaking grip. That's just pure Sig specialness.

Walther P88 and P5, HK P9S, CZ99, Arex, Sauer 38H.

There is no need for concern about the SIG "smile" on barrels. The finish wear you notice is a function of the very tight barrel-to-slide fit on SIGs. This post describes the barrel-to-slide fit, which is shown in this photo.

All guns with that sort of modified Browning lock up and black barrels get "smiles". It has nothing to do with fit.

 

[ATLDave]

Walther P88 and P5, HK P9S, CZ99, Arex, Sauer 38H.

Fair enough. I'll amend my statement to say nobody else making guns today puts a slide release in the middle of the grip. It does appear there was a fad for that in German/central Europe for a decade or two.... just about the same time American competitive shooters were developing the high grip/iso stance that proved to be optimal for most action/practical/tactical shooting.