Sig320 First Shots with 31 Year Old Ammo

[Mr.Revolverguy]

WE HAVE ALL SEEN THIS QUESTION BEFORE. HOW LONG CAN YOU KEEP YOUR AMMO?

What's the oldest handgun ammo you have fired?

Sig320 Compact with Wilson Extended Slide Stop and Sig Flat Trigger being shot for the very first time. With 147gr hardball ammo from 1990, yes correct from 1990.









If you maintain the ammo appropriately to manufacturer spec it can sit on the shelf for a long time.





Today most manufacturers guarantee shelf life of their ammunition to be at minimal a decade. When stored appropriately, which usually means in a cool, dry, dark, temperature controlled place. I am 100% sure of this ammunitions lineage being in my sisters home and then my home for it's entire lifespan. Even with that knowledge I would never consider this ammunition to be anything more than range fodder, even if it were high dollar self defense ammo. My everyday carry ammo is mainly fired and swapped out at 8 months, sometimes if not carried everyday 12 months but nothing is kept longer than 12 months.

Many military surplus rounds have been fired with much longer shelf life but it is extremely important you completely understand it's lineage and how it was stored. This 9mm ball ammunition has been in my family since it's purchase over 31 years ago. Even though I am very well aware of the life of this ammo I did disassemble one round looking for signs of deterioration, powder with hi ammonia like smell, rust or discoloration around the primer or case.

Aged ammo or ammo you are unsure about is better off being destroyed. I know it is hard to think about destroying ammo during this time of pandemic and ammunition shortage but it is not worth a life. I am sure many of you have seen Scott's video from Kentucky Ballistics. If not or if you think I am totally over blowing this topic about the dangers of aged ammo please go see his 50 Cal Milsurp video.

 

[Otto]

....Aged ammo or ammo you are unsure about is better off being destroyed. I know it is hard to think about destroying ammo during this time of pandemic and ammunition shortage but it is not worth a life.

Yeah....okay. I'm sure this seller would find your post as humorous as I did. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/899902282

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I am not so sure what is so funny about it, key phrase "ammo you are unsure about" meaning you have to make that call. Black Talon ammo is well known it is in factory box with factory components. If after inspection I say I am good with this then I fire it and hopefully have a great time.

 

[Wildbillz]

I once found four rounds of 45Acp from the 1920s in a box of loose ammo. All four fired on the first try. I bought two sealed boxes of 1950s USGI 30-06 and had couple of them that were duds.

WB

 

[Slamfire]

Many military surplus rounds have been fired with much longer shelf life but it is extremely important you completely understand it's lineage and how it was stored. This 9mm ball ammunition has been in my family since it's purchase over 31 years ago. Even though I am very well aware of the life of this ammo I did disassemble one round looking for signs of deterioration, powder with hi ammonia like smell, rust or discoloration around the primer or case.

Aged ammo or ammo you are unsure about is better off being destroyed. I know it is hard to think about destroying ammo during this time of pandemic and ammunition shortage but it is not worth a life. I am sure many of you have seen Scott's video from Kentucky Ballistics. If not or if you think I am totally over blowing this topic about the dangers of aged ammo please go see his 50 Cal Milsurp video

Smart. Pull the bullet, look for evidence of corrosion, and if there is none, look for evidence of over pressure when firing. If there are indications of overpressure, stop firing.

This is my picture of 1988 LC 308



Pulled the bullet, and guess what, corrosion!


I used to collect stories of over pressure ammunition, but it became pointless. There will always be a group that believes gunpowder and ammunition lasts forever, because they don't want their hoard to go bad.

For those that think old ammo is still ok....
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/38539-those-think-old-ammo-still-ok-print.html

A buddy of mine took his Sig p220 .45 down the range with us the other weekend. He had some old winchester hollowpoints that looked like they had been buried for 30 years. With myself still being new to guns and shooting, i didnt think anything about it.

Well he took one shot and it blow up in his hand. Now he has shot numerous rounds through this gun without a problem, of course they were new. Anyway, noone was hurt but the sig. This is hte way the gun is stuck in. It will not budge. Id say its a nice new paperweight

Remington 700 Overpressure with 20 year old factory ammunition


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527519

I'm sighting in my Remington 700 BDL .270 / Nikon 3X9 BDC today, and I decided to rotate old stock ammo. In this case, brand new (20 years ago), 130 grain ammo by a well known US ammunition Company. I bought several boxes of this brand, same lot, back in the early 90's after I discovered how wonderful they worked on woodchucks.

So I'm firing my 2nd round... WHAM! My mild .270 rifle bellows and whacks me in the glasses, odd I thought, as my .270's never kick like that.

The bolt won't open. I mean it is JAMMED. So after 5 min of banging on the bolt with my hand (HARD),it opens Ok, now the bolt draws back hard and the brass feels like its WELDED to the bolt face. I had to use a leatherman tool to pry it out. Rim was damaged, blackened, primer floating around, etc. Bolt appeared ok (Thank the Good Lord for Remington's 3 rings of steel protecting me!), and after switching ammo and using newer stock, the rifle functioned and sighted in 100% perfect. Scared the hell out of me though! This was factory ammo too, not reloads.

Ok, so I called Remington (ammo was early 90's vintage 130 grain Rem bronze point). They only back their ammo for 10 years (expected shelf life according to Remington). Note* I kept this ammo in a cool, dry place, sealed in a US Military ammo can for the past 2 decades. I have ammo from the 50's and 60's that still shoots fine. I guess with gunpowder, it's like rolling dice.

So, I'm glad the rifle is a Remington, as it was strong enough to take the hit without any damage, otherwise it would be my dime (and hide). I had our armorer (LEO), check it out as well. The bolt face appears ok, and I pulled the firing pin, ok as well. Damn strong rifle.

That brass was warped near the rim, I hate to guess what the PSI was, I'm betting well over 80,000 PSI, given how stiff that bolt was to open.

If I can get a photo posted, I will. Now I have several boxes of old .270 ammo to dispose of, as I'm not going to shoot it through my cherished 700 BDL anymore. At least the brass is still good and my right hand is still attached to my arm!
Time to go out and stock up on .270's!!!


Picher; Yes, bore was / is like a mirror. The rifle is a MINT early 80's BDL 700. No rust or pitting. She is one sexy rifle, it was love at first sight...

The high gloss wood and rich, deep blue steel.... MMmmmmm!!!!


It was close to 90 on Sunday in Maine, and humid. The ammo has been stored correctly, but, after all, it HAS been 20 years or so. I know my knees are not the same as they were 2 decades ago, so I guess I can't expect the ammo to fair any better. It just caught me off guard, as I stock up on (and shoot), old ammo, and NEVER had any issue. I guess I need to rotate my supply more often...

Signs of Overpressure in 20 Year Old Handloads
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=782395

I loaded some rounds about 20 years ago. I don't remember seeing any signs of overpressure at the time. However, when I blew the dust off and fired a few rounds last week I got a stiff bolt and flattened primers. I stopped after the second round and plan to pull the rest of the lot to verify the powder charges. Oddly enough, I still have the same can of powder that was used, but I'll probably end up dumping it for piece of mind, unless the powder charges are obviously over weight.

The cases were neck sized to the rifle. They've been stored bullet down in an MTM case within a steel ammo can.

I'd like some information on how or why these loads are exhibiting signs of overpressure. I'd also like to know if I need to change the way I'm storing my ammo.

Rifle: Remington 788

Caliber: .243 Win

Bullet: Hornady 87gr BTHP

Powder: 43.0gr IMR 4350

Primer: CCI 200

COAL: 2.697





I pulled two of the bullets and both showed signs of corrosion and exhibited a slight acidic odor. It looks like SlamFire1 was on the mark and I caught this at just the right time. I also measured the charges and both came in at exactly 41.9 grains, so that kind of seals it since these were supposed to be 43.0 grains. I'll definitely be pulling the rest of the lot.

I just finished pulling the rest of the lot. It looks like the charges were light because the powder was stuck to the inner wall of the cases. It's stuck on there hard enough that it needs to be scraped off. I may try to burn it off by igniting the primers - in the chamber, of course.

This was very recent. A shooting bud purchased surplus powder from a Tennessee reloading supplier, and loaded a bunch of 223 cases with the stuff. Luckily he noticed the plastic containers had melted, or he might have shot the stuff. And who knows what would have happened.











Industry is not going to educate you that surplus gunpowder/surplus ammunition came from stockpiles that were determined to be too old to store, (because the stuff will autocombust) and too dangerous to shoot, so an Ammunition specialist culled the stuff out of inventory.

And some shooter came along, thought "Day Old Bread!", and bought the stuff. My Bud was very upset about the money he wasted on LC69 powder and all the cases, primers, bullets, and storage containers it ruined.

 

[Rockrivr1]

My uncle was a LE in a small town in Mass in the early 1960s and when he passed he left me his service revolver, a S&W model 15, and a box of 38 special semi wad cutters made in 1964. I shot some of those rounds in 2015. They worked no problem and were pretty accurate as well. I can tell you that smokeless powders back then we’re definitely not smokeless.

 

[Slamfire]

My uncle was a LE in a small town in Mass in the early 1960s and when he passed he left me his service revolver, a S&W model 15, and a box of 38 special semi wad cutters made in 1964. I shot some of those rounds in 2015. They worked no problem and were pretty accurate as well. I can tell you that smokeless powders back then we’re definitely not smokeless.

Sure, gunpowder's lifetime is unpredictable. But it does have a lifetime, and it does go bad. Sometimes a lot faster than you would think.





the oldest IMR 4007 can be is 12 years old, as this powder came out in 2007



at least Accurate uses date codes



I know, my shooting buds read the same magazines, and when asked, do not remember seeing these warnings. And they do not understand the implications. I am certain when they looked at them, they simply dismissed them as "bad powder" and went on. The shooting community does not want to believe that gunpowder goes bad, and everyone has fired old ammunition and had nothing bad happen. I believe the knowledge that gunpowder goes bad has been deliberately erased from the shooting communities memory, and also, what to look for, to determine if the gunpowder or ammunition has gone bad. It is important to know what to look for, or you can get hurt. Old deteriorated gunpowder in the can will autocombust and burn your house down. Old gunpowder in the case has blown up guns. Ignorance is not strength, except to industry, who will sell you anything.