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*sigh* Is it just me, or... (car thief shot, killed)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Beren, Oct 26, 2004.

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  1. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    *sigh* Is i tjust me, or... (car thief shot, killed)

    http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/pittsburgh/s_265875.html

    Excerpts:

    "The family of a 13-year-old boy who was shot and fatally wounded while driving a stolen minivan on the North Side made an impassioned plea Monday for those responsible to surrender."

    "The ignition of the 1992 Dodge Caravan had been popped and the engine was running."

    "Charles Pittman described his nephew as "a good little kid" but acknowledged he was prone to getting "into mischief.""

    "Charles Pittman said his nephew "snuck out of the house and probably was out with one of his friends joy-riding" when he was shot.

    "He got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's a tragedy. To be shot in the head, it's totally devastating." "

    """We've got to stop the violence before more kids get hurt.""

    Hey, HERE's a crazy idea: maybe your kids should stop stealing cars! Sounds like they stole the wrong person's car, and that the owner was real unhappy when they finally caught up to the kid. That, or maybe someone else tried to steal the stolen car...

    I know, I know. Noone should suffer death for car theft. But the kid sure wasn't the "good little angel" Charles would have us believe. Anyway, that's one car thief that will never ride again. Maybe his death will help discourage some of his peers.
     
  2. griz

    griz Member

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    The article quotes the owner of the stolen vehicle and apparently he already has the van back. So I don't think the owner shot him. On the other hand it certainly seems that the theft was related to the shooting.

    Also from the article:
    Got to agree with that, but like you I think the best way to stop the violence is to teach your angelic offsring that stealing cars is wrong, and BTW, dangerous.
     
  3. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Member

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    WAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

    Look at the bright side.
    He's no longer a candidate for the repeat offender program.
     
  4. HankB

    HankB Member

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    If the little maggot had been caught and arrested by the police, I wouldn't advocate execution . . . but I find it hard to shed any tears in this case.

    In fact, this is one of those "good riddance" shootings which ought to be deleted from the stats when they calculate murder rates.
    Would it be too much to present the deceased's family - you know, the ones who raised a juvenile delinquent car thief - with a bill for cleaning the blood out of the interior?
     
  5. SLCDave

    SLCDave Member

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    You know, if you or your loved ones are doing what you are supposed to be doing, minding your own business, and something bad happens to you or yours, you have a right to be outraged. When you cross that line, you have no right to raise hell. If you put yourself in a pot that might get hot, don't cry if you get cooked.

    I'm not saying he deserved to get killed, but when you do things that put out the bad Karma, the bad Karma comes back to you as well.
     
  6. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    From what I could read, It seems that the theft of the van was not a reason he was shot. But then, with all the 'he was such a good kid' in there, I couldn;t pick out facts.
     
  7. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    Robert Heinlein said' "There are no juvenal delinquents, only juvenal criminals. It's the PARENTS who are delinquent." He had a point. I think the kid's parents should be prosecuted for child neglect resulting in death.
     
  8. erik the bold

    erik the bold Member

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    Reminds me of this song:


    Only a Lad - D. Elfman / Oingo Boingo 1980

    Johnny was bad, even as a child everybody could tell
    Everyone said if you don't get straight
    You'll surely go to hell

    But Johnny didn't care
    He was an outlaw by the time that he was
    Ten years old
    He didn't wanna do what he was told
    Just a prankster, juvenile gangster

    His teachers didn't understand
    They kicked him out of school
    At a tender early age
    Just because he didn't want to learn things
    (Had other interests)
    He liked to burn things

    The lady down the block
    She had a radio that Johnny wanted oh so bad
    So he took it the first chance he had
    Then he shot her in the leg
    And this is what she said
    Only a lad
    You really can't blame him
    Only a lad
    Society made him
    Only a lad
    He's our responsibility
    Only a lad
    He really couldn't help it
    Only a lad
    He didn't want to do it
    Only a lad
    He's underprivileged and abused
    Perhaps a little bit confused

    His parents gave up they couldn't influence his attitude
    Nobody could help
    The little man had no gratitude

    And when he stole the care
    Nobody dreamed that he would
    Try to take it so far
    He didn't mean to hit the poor man
    Who had to go and die
    It made the judge cry

    Only a lad
    He really couldn't help it
    Only a lad
    He didn't want to do it
    Only a lad
    He's underprivileged and abused
    Perhaps a little bit confused

    It's not his fault that he can't believe
    It's not his fault that he can't behave
    Society made him go astray
    Perhaps if we're nice he'll go away
    Perhaps he'll go away
    He'll go away

    (chorus)

    Hey there Johnny you really don't fool me
    You get away with murder
    And you think it's funny
    You don't give a damn if we live or if we die
    Hey there Johnny boy
    I hope you fry! :fire: :evil: :fire:
     
  9. HEiST

    HEiST member

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    Am I bad if I want to explain to his family, very forcefully, that their son is dead because he was stupid?
     
  10. Chut1st

    Chut1st Member

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    We are not alone. In England, where it is increasingly impossible to defend your life, family and home, a farmer was acquited of charges of shooting a burglar.

    http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/26/nshot26.xml

    "(The judge) sentencing the burglar to seven years in jail for a string of similar crimes, said it was "a pity" that prosecutors had even thought of bringing charges of assault against the farmer."

    Interestingly, the last line of the story is:

    "A member of (the burglar's) family, who asked not to be named, said the case had sent out "the wrong message" and asked: "Are they saying we can all shoot burglars?""

    Uh, yeah! Why not?
     
  11. STW

    STW Member

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    Reminds me a bit of when a friend's suburban was stolen from his driveway. The next day my wife's watching the news and sees that it'd been involved in a roll over accident, killing one of the illegals using it as a ride up from Mexico. (Interesting telephone call, "Hey, your suburban's on the news right now....")

    The vehicle owners response on the 5:00 news, "I'm sorry one of them died but I'm out a car." Not quoted was the sentiment that no one forced anyone to steal or ride in hot wheels.
     
  12. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Why not? If car thieves were fair game, there'd suddenly be a lot fewer of them.
     
  13. patentmike

    patentmike Member

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    It'll be interesting if all the facts come out. I'll bet it goes something like:
    My little tyke picked up the gun form some other kids who were bad, he didn't know it was stolen, then it went off and killed his car-stealing friend. He's done some thefts and robbery and drugs and stuff, but he's never done anything real bad, before.
     
  14. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    WARNING! Philosophical opinion ahead!

    Hmmm. How many hours of your life did you spend working to get your car? Or anything else you own?

    Just for the sake of argument, let's say you spent 100 hours working to earn the money to buy an item. That's 100 hours of irreplacable life gone. Let us now assume that you are on your death bed. You may only have 1 hour left to live, but if someone comes in a shoots you in the head, are they not still guilty of murder? They stole 1 hour off of the END of your life, so what about the 100 hours stolen out of the MIDDLE by the thief who steals your property. By my thinking, someone stealing my property is also stealing the hours of my life I spent working to obtain that property. I regard that theft equal to the theft of my life itself. Time from the middle or end of life is still stolen life. That's why I morally disagree with laws that say you can't use force to defend property.

    My $0.02 YMMV.
     
  15. ARperson

    ARperson Member

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    Why not? They hung (or would that be hanged?) horse thieves (sometimes without the benefit of a trial). Both were the major mode of transportation for the day. I see no difference.
     
  16. artherd

    artherd member

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    They used to execute people for horse theft.

    Reason being, if you steal someone's horse 100miles from the nearest town, source of water, food, or settlement, you are basically murdering them very slowly and painfully.

    Granted, this is no longer the case in many developed areas of the US.

    But if you stole my car while I was 200miles into the desert offroad in Death Valley at 1:55am, there is a very good chance that nobody would ever see me alive again.

    Cars are in some cases essential to secureing the safety and very lives of their owners. I think car theft should be regarded as somewhat more than a dollar-value grand-theft.
     
  17. Grey54956

    Grey54956 Member

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    Wow. I must be getting thick skinned.

    My first thought was "How many holes were in the van? Is the owner going to be able to afford the bodywork???"

    I am a total bastard...
     
  18. magsnubby

    magsnubby Member

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    Call me a cynical old sob but if he had been doing something constructive with his time instead of stealing cars and playing with guns he would still be alive.

    They call car thieft a victimless crime. BULL SQUAT!

    I look at it this way: I have emphysema. Every day i drag my sorry self out of bed and go to work it jeopardizes my health. I had to work in order to afford my truck. That jeopardized my health. Some pos steals my truck. He just threatened me with bodily harm.

    A dead car thief? Big deal.
     
  19. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    Magsnubby, good point...

    That dovetails with my contention that stolen property equals stolen life.
     
  20. wasrjoe

    wasrjoe Member

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    I believe it's a Simpsons quote...

    "That's terrible! In principle..."
     
  21. Yooper

    Yooper Member

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    Whatever happened to parents being held responsible for the actions of their children?
     
  22. Silent-Snail

    Silent-Snail Member

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    In a time when a parent can be arrested for child abuse for a simple spanking that concept is deader than the Dodo.
     
  23. XLMiguel

    XLMiguel Member

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    Gee, if he's stealing cars at 13, just image what he'd be into by the time he's 18:barf: No great loss, just one little terdball that won't grow up to be a big one.

    I'm with SMLE, thieves are taking your life, but just in chunks rather than all at once. If someone's livelihood depended on that van, it's a lot more than 'mischief'. Uncle Charles needs a remedial session with the cluebat
     
  24. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    Mike in Va...

    I like that. Good one.
     
  25. dustind

    dustind Member

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    I was going to say good shoot, but you guys beat me to it.

    As a Libertarian I hate the fact that some people can not grasp the difference between victimless crimes, and normal crimes.

    I hope the van was salvageable, and the family made to pay for the damages.
     
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