Sigh. Maybe it [i]is[/i]time to leave Wisconsin

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Monkeyleg

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Last month, Wisconsin Governor Doyle unveiled proposals to fight violent crime. One proposal would ban the private sales of guns. Another would prohibit anyone convicted of a misdemeanor offense involving guns from ever owning a gun again (that would include petty charges such as unlawful transport). Another proposal would abolish the state's pre-emption law, leaving cities like Milwaukee to enact any gun control laws the anti's wanted.

Governor Doyle's proposals received a few critical letters to the editor. But today's three anti-gun letters outnumbered the others. And the editor of the letters to the editor column has assured me (and I believe her) that the balance of views is based upon the letters received.

I really, really need to flee Wisconsin. Here are a few sample letters from today:

***********

GUNS

Governor's proposals are important

Community columnist Mark A. Sity attempted to shoot down Gov. Jim Doyle's plans to combat violent crime, but the bullet lodged in his foot ("It's the criminals, stupid," Sept. 7).

He repeated the crazy idea that since criminals will disobey a law, there's no point having the law. Licensing guns is important and necessary, just as is the licensing of cars. Yes, that may involve a cost, but gun ownership is a privilege as well as a right.

Gun traffic is interstate, and a national database fills a gap left open by current background checks. It makes sense. Also, if a community wants more restrictive gun regulations than the state, why shouldn't it have that right?

A misdemeanor involving gun use is serious. People can lose their right to drive for misdemeanor drunken driving, too. This is not open to abuse.

Federal law does not prohibit gun sales to individuals between 18 and 21. Doyle wants to close this gap. Ballistic fingerprinting is strongly supported by law enforcement experts. If crime labs are too backed up to do this, let's improve them.

Finally, I'm not sure what the Founding Fathers meant by putting "well-regulated" in the Second Amendment, but it doesn't sound as though they would be on Sity's (sic) side in this issue.

Jay Beder
Shorewood

What restrictions would be acceptable?

I read community columnist Mark A. Sity's "It's the criminals, stupid" with interest. As a rational-thinking "liberal," I often find myself agreeing with gun advocates' arguments that gun laws will affect law-abiding citizens rather than criminals who'd choose to go outside the law to purchase guns. What we don't hear from gun advocates is what restrictions they are willing to accept to make our community safer.

I agree with Sity; our Founding Fathers were not stupid men. However, we as a society have already agreed to numerous restrictions on that vital and fundamental First Amendment. For instance, I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater nor, among other things, may I put anything on my front lawn that would be offensive to community standards.

I ask strong supporters of the Second Amendment what restrictions they will accept to reduce the senseless deaths in our community.

Michael Peragine
Milwaukee

More guns out there is not the answer

I realize that gun control measures will do little to curb street violence, since most of this violence is wrought by illegal guns bought on the street. However, I fail to see how more guns on the street equals more safety. I ain't too good at book learnin', but that just don't add up.

Letter writer Thomas R. Eells mentioned a school and mall shooting ("Concealed handguns allow self-defense." Sept. 8). Count on never seeing me in a mall, park or festival if a law passes allowing concealed weapons.

Also, I'm not sure if letter writer Michael F. Gallo knew this, but drug dealers, pimps and thugs don't work the 9-to-5 shift, so just because he rolls through North Ave. twice a day doesn't mean he understands the inner city's problems ("Safety, proper use of firearms are vital").

The only solution is strong, community-driven peace programs, gun turn-ins and educating youth. And one more thing: A person is not a rat if he or she helps the police catch a robber, drug dealer and/or killer; rats live in sewers, not peaceful communities.

Gharrity McNett
Milwaukee

***

Sigh. If I hear one more anti try to qualify the First Amendment by saying that I cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theater, I'm going to set his house on fire, and then remain silent.
 
Aussie Shooter:

They are elected. Doyle's last re election was fought tooth and nail by WI residents and even many of us who do not live in WI tried to help, but he just has too much money and I understand he won by a very narrow margin.
 
U.S. Governors are voted in.

If Heller is heard by SCOTUS and if it goes our way, states can pass all the laws they want that allow local pre-emption and it won't matter. The definition of "reasonable regulation" will be set by the courts and that will be the end of the argument.

Well. Sort of.

Roe v. Wade wasn't the end of that argument, was it? But at least gunnies will have a serious upper hand over antis.

Anyway, if SCOTUS upholds Heller, it will probably eventually result in "shall issue" being the law of the land everywhere in the US. And then people who have a phobia about guns can just stay away from the malls forever.
 
Aussie ~

They're voted in.

The big trouble is that in many states, the governor can be elected simply by the homogenous votes from a single large city, often to the vehement dismay of voters throughout the rest of the state. That gives city-dwellers a disproportionate effect on state government, and makes folks who live outside city limits feel a bit disenfranchised.

pax
 
Australian Shooter, depending upon your point of view, they should either be elected or hanged.

Barring the death (natural or otherwise) of governors, they are elected. And, in states such as Wisconsin, they are elected by people who have been paid to elect them. By that, I mean that the state governments create social programs that people eventually cannot live without. Thus the government becomes a self-perpuating entity. People cannot vote against the government in charge without fear of losing their "entitlements" (cash).

Governor Jim Doyle has twice vetoed out CCW bill, and has twice twisted the arms of former Democrat supporters of our bill to flip on their votes. There's ample speculation as to what the governor used to bribe these legislators, but saying such things would only invite a lawsuit from the governor.

Milwaukee is a cesspool of violent and disgusting crime. An 11 year-old girl gang-raped by twenty or so teens and adults. People being beaten to death by mobs of "youts" with fists, feet and pieces of wood. Little girls skipping rope in front of their homes, and being shot in the head by gangstahs who can't shoot worth a damn. It happens several times a day.

Governor Doyle's solution? Punish the 99.9% of us who will never do such things.

And the news media just laps it up. The editors are fellow travellers with Doyle. After all, they live outside Milwaukee, and don't have to listen to the sirens all night. Or the gunshots. Or have to face some real bad guys.

Oh, to be able to blast those Ivory Towers with RPG's.
 
You know you guys have got it bad when your infamous southern neighbor's laws start to look less restrictive...
 
Monkeyleg, you quoted that
Governor Jim Doyle has twice vetoed out CCW bill
, what happened to the veto override, is it true that the members of the house/assembly can override a governor's veto if more than two thirds of them vote against the veto. Or is it that support for the CCW bill hasn't quite reached the required two thirds?
 
Yes, Aussie, a two-thirds vote is required for the state legislature to override the Governor's veto. That means two thirds of the House (lower legislative body) and two thirds of the Senate (upper legislative body). Unfortunately, the politicians here wouldn't be caught dead ever agreeing to something so sensible in such a majority.

When you have two parties that have such polarized views on an issue such as this, (typically) it is very difficult to get that 2/3. Assuming that there is an equal amount of representation from both parties, that means that if ALL of one party agrees, they still need 1/6 of the other party to agree to it.

In the national legislature it's even harder, requiring a 3/4 majority to override a veto.
 
Last month, Wisconsin Governor Doyle unveiled proposals to fight violent crime.

Yeah, and the sun's going to rise in the north tomorrow morning, too. Doyle's only intent is to make it more difficult and expensive for commoners, (who, after all, ought to be content with beer and sports,) to have guns.
 
We still have it better than our neighbor to the south.With out Milwaukee the state is not so bad.We need to keep up the good fight and let these feel good folks know we have rights too. Paul
 
I think many folks in Wisconsin are ignorant or oblivious to gun rights issues. They don't seem to mind what happens as long as they can have a deer rifle. I know i was several years ago when the ccw issue came up in the state. It wasn't until I started school in Virginia that i met friends who took me me shooting and to gun shows. I now have a non-resident Virginia ccw and I wish I could carry when I was back home in milwaukee
 
Milwaukee is not the only problem. Madison is horrible when it comes to guns, and UWM hardly helps.

Ever tried to find a chief LEO to sign for class III in wisconsin? Not gonna happen.

The unfortunate part for me is that I work for a firearm manufacturer as a marketing consultant and engineer. At one point they were considering moving to Wisconsin to expand their defense related branch. The Vice President decided against it because he decided the state was "a bunch of commies."

Oh well, I'm hoping they will offer me relocation and a full-time job.
 
come join us

Kentucky still, for the time being, takes our God given 2nd amendment rights seriously at least outside of Louisville and Lexington where there are fewer communists and socialists.
 
.......I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater......

I believe restrictions on guns have already surpassed the "fire in a crowded theater" restriction anti's like to bring up. I'm told how, where, when and what I can carry (including the type of ammunition). That seems to be a bit more restrictive than not being able to yell fire in a crowded theater to me.
 
Hopefully I will be moving back to Kentucky since the company I work for just opened up a facility there (instead of Wisconsin). It would be nice to live somewhere that I can CCW...not to mention that Knob Creek is there.

I still don't think the local sheriff trust me after asking him to approve my transfer. He seems to drive by my house a lot and once spotted me at the range and wanted to see what I was "packing." I politely declined.
 
.......I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater......

That's one of those arguements I have always hated. Ignoring the historical reference (as I understand it, the film they used was extremely flamable, and the storage was bunkeresque), you can yell fire in a crowded theatre if it is in fact on fire.

THe government doesn't take away your ability to yell, it just puts a penalty on you for doing it inappropriately. If speech inside a theater was regulated like firearms, we would be required to go through a background check before even being allowed to open our mouths. Not to mention, that in some states, you would have to have a cooling off period before being allowed to speak in a theatre.
 
They are elected. Doyle's last re election was fought tooth and nail by WI residents and even many of us who do not live in WI tried to help, but he just has too much money and I understand he won by a very narrow margin.

He won by 8 percent which is not an insubstantial amount at all. In fact, in the realm of politics, anything over 5 percent is seen as a pretty large victory.

As a lifelong Wisconsin resident(besides a year here or there), I'm making the move to Minnesota very soon. It has more to do with the job market than politics though.
 
As a native Cheesehead, I am ashamed. What with "BadgerCare" and crap like this, the socialists of the Land of Dane have truly California the Peoples' Republic of Wisconsin. :(
 
A misdemeanor involving gun use is serious. People can lose their right to drive for misdemeanor drunken driving, too
That shows that the laws are poorly written, and just as poorly understood. Drunk driving is inherently dangerous, but will not necessarily result in someone being harmed (which is my guess as to why a misdemeanor charge exists). The same cannot be said for petty firearms violations like transport, where clearly nobody will be harmed. Someone will only be harmed from shooting.

I ask strong supporters of the Second Amendment what restrictions they will accept to reduce the senseless deaths in our community.
I would accept restrictions on things like murder, rape, assault, etc. Those exist already? Well, I'm out of ideas...

Federal law does not prohibit gun sales to individuals between 18 and 21.
This will reduce guns in this age group just like raising the drinking age to 21 did for alcohol.

The only solution is strong, community-driven peace programs, gun turn-ins and educating youth
While I agree with education, I'm pretty certain we don't have the same thing in mind. Peace programs are a joke - how about some parental involvement? Gun turn-ins? Been proven trivial by several members here through action.
 
Moving is letting them win. If the fine people of Maryland, Pennsylvania and Illinois can fight for their RKBA rights and win so can we. Doyal is a crook, but he aint stupid. I doubt that this will make it the floor prior to the next set of elections. If it does.
Mobilise, organize and defeat. If the folks in MD, and PA ca do it so can we.

On a side note.
WI has much bigger problems then this. It is called the line veto.
 
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