*sigh* The Wastefulness of War
- Thread starter Nightcrawler
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Just because these folks are heroic now, during the war, doesn't mean that they can't let us down some point down the road. Tim McVeigh ring a bell?
Don't you think a high proportion of LEOs, such as BATF agents are veterans? Some guys with military experience probably pulled the trigger at Waco and Ruby Ridge.
I think there was a story circulating, possibly true, likely apocryphal, that they Armed Services were circulating questionaires, during the Klinton admin., asking if the soldier would be willing to confiscate weapons from US civilians if authorized by higher authorities. The possibility exists.
Don't you think a high proportion of LEOs, such as BATF agents are veterans? Some guys with military experience probably pulled the trigger at Waco and Ruby Ridge.
I think there was a story circulating, possibly true, likely apocryphal, that they Armed Services were circulating questionaires, during the Klinton admin., asking if the soldier would be willing to confiscate weapons from US civilians if authorized by higher authorities. The possibility exists.
Tommy Gunn
Member
Heck, its just AK47's being destroyed. Not like the guy is busting up a fine old Mauser.
Nightcrawler
Member
CZ-75, I'm in the military. I suppose you think I'm going to kick in my own door, say hi to my mom as I rush upstairs in battle rattle, grab my FAL and my other beloved firearms, and toss them off to be destroyed?
Is a future worst-case-scenario possible? Anything is possible. In the mean time, alienating military and law enforcement people with an us vs. them mentality will do us no good.
Is a future worst-case-scenario possible? Anything is possible. In the mean time, alienating military and law enforcement people with an us vs. them mentality will do us no good.
DMK
Member
Guys, those AKs never had any hope of leaving that country, much less being allowed import here.
Better to destroy them than give allow the Iraqi's to get them back and later have some punk Al-Queda wanna-be hose down a squad of Marines catching a smoke break because Saddam used one of his parents for a human shield.
Better to destroy them than give allow the Iraqi's to get them back and later have some punk Al-Queda wanna-be hose down a squad of Marines catching a smoke break because Saddam used one of his parents for a human shield.
Funny, I perceive a lot of these folks having an us v. them attitude.
The military ought not to be a problem, but I keep seeing an intent to use them as domestic LE. A goodly number of LE think that they ought to be military, since they seem to want all the helmets, flak jackets, class III weapons, and armored vehicles to play with.
Any way you slice it, I seriously doubt that the attitude of gun owners is going to have an effect one way or the other. Those who don't value our rights won't be persuaded to do so, no matter what we say. Conversely, those who do respect the Constitution, will, irrespective and regardless.
Healthy skepticism is beneficial. I support our troops when they do what they're supposed to do - protect our country. I won't support them when they are used as an enforcement tool against US citizens. I won't be so conditioned that I can't tell the difference.
SquirrelNuts
Member
A hypothetical poll was given to Marines once and they were asked if they would ever use force against American citizens, regardless of what they were doing wrong. Something like 90% said "No." It would be a completely different military then.
-SquirrelNuts
-SquirrelNuts
Wildalaska
member
Tinfoil hats on everybody!!!!
Wild
AlaskaWildalaska
member
WildczneedstolearntowritebettersentencesthenandinaddtionthertofigureouthisowndistinctivesignatureratherthancopyingothersAlaska
PS...stickin up for der Vaterland now are ya? Read the Beast Reawakens sometimes for info about it....
Tamara
Senior Member
WildAlaska,
Wow, all this discussion about racial stereotypes; how very, well, "Nazi-esque".
The survey in question did, in fact, exist, but wasn't actually passed out to "all the armed services during the Klinton administration" or whatever; it was passed out to some Marines at Twentynine Palms by a Navy Lieutenant Commander to gather data for a thesis he was writing. It has since grown into quite the urban legend.
Wow, all this discussion about racial stereotypes; how very, well, "Nazi-esque".
The survey in question did, in fact, exist, but wasn't actually passed out to "all the armed services during the Klinton administration" or whatever; it was passed out to some Marines at Twentynine Palms by a Navy Lieutenant Commander to gather data for a thesis he was writing. It has since grown into quite the urban legend.
yesterdaysyouth
Member
can't we just weld up the muzzles and give em back.....
illuminatus99
Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2002
- Messages
- 192
could you please post a disclaimer before posting an offensive picture like that? 
if it were up to me they would be sending those AKs back to the states for sale to help offset the cost of the war. heck they could even send back some of those T-72s they've been finding uninhabited.
if it were up to me they would be sending those AKs back to the states for sale to help offset the cost of the war. heck they could even send back some of those T-72s they've been finding uninhabited.
cratz2
Member
Scratch me all you want WildAlaska... no Nazi underneath. Even though if I had absolute power, I might force all gun shops in Alaska that talk crap about SWFA for no reason to close their doors... Might even confiscate their inventory if there was anything that interested me. Some might consider that pretty Fascist, I suppose.
Posts like this definately offset your posts that do contribute to TheHighRoad.
And the 29 Palms survey definately took place. Or at least the thesis was written and published. I'd like to think he didn't use data he made up from thin air.
Posts like this definately offset your posts that do contribute to TheHighRoad.
And the 29 Palms survey definately took place. Or at least the thesis was written and published. I'd like to think he didn't use data he made up from thin air.
cslinger
Member
Man, Tamara.....
Do you just spend day and night soaking up information from various resources. I mean I thought I was reasonably well read.
You are like a walking encyclopedia complete with references. I wish I would have known you in college or better yet Catholic High School.
Chris.
Do you just spend day and night soaking up information from various resources. I mean I thought I was reasonably well read.
You are like a walking encyclopedia complete with references. I wish I would have known you in college or better yet Catholic High School.
Chris.
Sodbuster
Member
Sacrilege!
On another note, a camoflauge note to be exact and per another thread in political, woodland and desert sure don't go well together.Why not package them up and keep them offshore for the new Iraqi defense force we will create in a few months.
Our government could also sell them to allies or give them to insurgents we want to support.
I cringe eveytime I see good firearms get smashed.
Reminds me of a pic I saw about 15 years ago.
They had just allowed C&R military surplus rifles to be imported again.
They were 50 foot tall piles of Mausers and Mosin Nagants sitting
like kindling in the snow. (Thousands of rifles)
The caption explained that those were the guns checked out
that had bad headspacing or might be unsafe to shoot.
These guns were to be burned.
I never understood why they didn't sell them for parts like they do now.....
Our government could also sell them to allies or give them to insurgents we want to support.
I cringe eveytime I see good firearms get smashed.
Reminds me of a pic I saw about 15 years ago.
They had just allowed C&R military surplus rifles to be imported again.
They were 50 foot tall piles of Mausers and Mosin Nagants sitting
like kindling in the snow. (Thousands of rifles)
The caption explained that those were the guns checked out
that had bad headspacing or might be unsafe to shoot.
These guns were to be burned.
I never understood why they didn't sell them for parts like they do now.....
cratz2
Member
Hey, what else do you think there is to do up 'On a mountaintop in Tennessee'?
Have you read her interests in her profile? Reading comes before shooting. cratz2
Member
I think the most interesting portion of the thesis has to do with Marine's willingness, or lack thereof, to following orders against American citizens from a NATO officer not from the United States. I know the percentage was higher if the order to fire came from a US officer.
Archie
Member
Logistics....
Sometimes, it costs too much to store and move stuff. When the US pulled out of Vietnam, we dumped tons of equipment like field desks and old 2.5 ton trucks and various stuff. Because it cost more to (repair and) move it back to CONUS than to make it.
If the men breaking up the AKs are primary troops, they don't have a lot of time to sort, pack and store the arms. The objective RIGHT NOW is to disarm and disable the Iraqi war machine. Will it be regretful next year? Maybe. Gotta do what you gotta do.
TAMARA. Do you know where the thesis/paper regarding Marines serving to confiscate weapons is available? I remember hearing about it some eight or ten years ago, but never saw the results. There seems to be a difference of opinion here regarding the findings.
Lastly, military cannot be casually used in a LE role in the US unless the "Posse Comitatus" laws are revoked. The times military can be used are specific and pretty extreme. Still, laws can be changed. So watch your elected reps and vote conservative.
Sometimes, it costs too much to store and move stuff. When the US pulled out of Vietnam, we dumped tons of equipment like field desks and old 2.5 ton trucks and various stuff. Because it cost more to (repair and) move it back to CONUS than to make it.
If the men breaking up the AKs are primary troops, they don't have a lot of time to sort, pack and store the arms. The objective RIGHT NOW is to disarm and disable the Iraqi war machine. Will it be regretful next year? Maybe. Gotta do what you gotta do.
TAMARA. Do you know where the thesis/paper regarding Marines serving to confiscate weapons is available? I remember hearing about it some eight or ten years ago, but never saw the results. There seems to be a difference of opinion here regarding the findings.
Lastly, military cannot be casually used in a LE role in the US unless the "Posse Comitatus" laws are revoked. The times military can be used are specific and pretty extreme. Still, laws can be changed. So watch your elected reps and vote conservative.
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