single shot 12 ga for home defense?

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Little more than "one shot and they all ran away".
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South Afrika is a bit different from ohhhh, *ALL* of the US, though. You guys actually have shoot outs with your police, we don't. We have police that *love* to hear "armed suspect" just because they get to shoot them for free. Hell, ours even shoot unarmed guys for sport.

Too many folks watch too much tv, though. They see Rambo doing his thing and think they can be like that. Problem is, real life is far from Hollywood.

The NRA used to post an article each month whereby law abiding citizens here had used firearms to defend themselves or others. No idea if they still do or not. You can read dozens of them and not see a single "extended shootout with a drug-crazed gang of mutants", though. Hollywood doesn't reflect real life.

richard
 
Still the plain fact of the matter is that few can work a single shot fast enough to do combat with someone firing a 9 mm that has a 17 round mag or more.
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Okay, now, that's just silly. :D

If you have a shotgun, you have the range and power advantage. Rounds on target. Done.

Personally, the things I'd be comfortable using for home defense are legion. I have an AR-15. I have a Mossberg 500 with Ghost Ring sights. I have a Marlin 1894M. I have a .45 Colt Winchester 1894. I have 9mm handguns and a .357. All of these I am perfectly comfortable using, though I'd prefer to grab a longarm if I have time. BUT.

I grew up using a H&R 20 gauge. If I only had $100 to buy a defensive tool with, I might buy a single-shot NEF. I'd buy a used butt-cuff for a few bucks and slap it on the buttstock, so I'd always have reloads handy. Then I'd buy the cheapest slugs I could find, find someplace I could shoot without paying for it, and verify POA/POI. Then I'd sleep well. :D

If an uncoordinated 11-year-old boy with a 20 gauge single-shot can take out squirrels at 40 yards, you'd better believe the man can hit his front door at 7 yards as it's being kicked in.

Yeah, repeaters in general are better. Little bit of practice, knowledge of your surroundings and good tactics, and a single-shot should serve fine unless you may be facing an entire team of attackers.

(And you know...for the life of me, I don't understand when otherwise sane-seeming gun folk talk about "pointing guns at invaders". You don't point guns at invaders- you SHOOT them. It doesn't matter what they're armed with, unless they engage you outside your effective range. You SHOOT them. So they have 16 more rounds than you. So? Unless they somehow use those rounds to deny you the opportunity to fire, what difference do those 16 rounds make? Are they going to be firing as they invade your house? What the hell?)

John
 
OK, quick question. You break into a house and the home owner points (A) a High Point or (B) a NEF shotgun at you. Your call as to which one will work better.
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At this point , any move other than rapidly disarming and your life span is measured in seconds I don't take pointing a gun at someone lightly . so once I have made that decision It mean I expect I'll have to use it. hesitation will get you killed. People bad mouth singleshots and hipoints both have served me well Hi points are made here in this state and are quite common They go bang every time you pull the trigger and hit some where near point of aim . if they don't hi point will fix them.

Here what I know I would rather face 3 mall ninjas with their latest taci cool "shotties" and wundernines than one good ole boy with A H&R single shot and a hi point
Roy
I had to take a break from typing this reply to go see what the dogs were barking at . my dog only bark if something isn't right . (there was a strange dog out on the road) the above post is right on the money. B.T.W. I was unarmed all I took was a H&R 12 ga W/24" barrel :evil:
 
You must have missed that whole "drive by" thing. The whole point of that was to drive by a house with several people hanging out of a car with high capacity weapons firing as many rounds as possible into a house. That sure sounds like a shoot out to me.
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Well, it doesn't sound like a shoot out to me. It sounds like a "drive by". That's why it's called a drive by. You know, because they, um drive by.

A 12 or 20 gauge single-shot is effective at putting a powerful short-range load downrange from an inexpensive, smooth-handling platform.

What I mostly learned from your post was not to hang out with you, frankly. :( Yeah, if a round of 12 or 20 is good, at least three more is more gooder. I'm pretty sure no-one in this thread has contested that. What I think is ridiculous, is someone who seems to have the funds, who defends his domicile with a wussy widdle handgun when he could be using a real firearm, one with a stock for speed and accuracy, and additional power.

Shucks. I was going to say "but that's just my opinion", but of course it happens to be the opinion of the best firearms trainers these days, too. :D

John
 
You must have missed that whole "drive by" thing. The whole point of that was to drive by a house with several people hanging out of a car with high capacity weapons firing as many rounds as possible into a house.
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Whoooops! Thank you, John! Was just typing a reply to that when I read yours.

Funny how these guys can make your point for you without ever really noticing.

richard
 
RandKL, I don't get your post. Sarcasm, doesn't transfer well in typed media, so maybe that is it.

BEcause I live in a place where I'm more likely to experience gun violence my opinion is less valuable?

I'm sure there are plenty of places and stories about a single shot ending a confrontation, but there is a reason we don't carry Encore pistols.

Like I said you CAN use a single shotty, and it CAN be enough to stop a fight with the sound, but why rely on it?

It is too much like those people who claim the racking of a 12 guage is enough to scare people away.

Shoot to stop, don't shoot to make some noise to scare people away. I'll take the 8 shots up front.

Like I said, run a pump like is is a single shot and you won't have any issues, but you WILL have those spare 7 rounds in the mag.

KBK
 
BEcause I live in a place where I'm more likely to experience gun violence my opinion is less valuable?
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Not in any way, KBK. But *you* have to be aware that the OP of this thread is in the southern US, not South Afrika. Anything I might say or have said in discussion about that topic is going to be based on my life and experiences *in* the US. If you want to discuss HD in your country and the weapons you folks use, I'd be glad to listen....but don't try and take my US-directed point of view and twist it around and say I was arguing with *you*. I wasn't.

I also wasn't telling someone in Russia what he should buy based on my experiences in the US. Nor China, nor Japan, nor Chile etc etc etc. I'm sure that at one time sooner or later, one of them will pop on and take my comments out of context, too.

Like I said you CAN use a single shotty, and it CAN be enough to stop a fight with the sound, but why rely on it?
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I have no idea what you're talking about there, sir. You must be mistaking someone else's posts for mine. I in no way advocate firing warning shots.

richard
 
The comment about the "warning" shots rasn't directed at you Randkl, it was directed at the topic in question.

Yes my experience is different from the OP's. AS IS EVERYONE'S ON THIS FORUM. Individual experiences will vary.

Armed combat is pretty universal though. People with guns trying to kill you. Not that different in the USA, South Africa, Argentina or the Gobi Desert.

Too many folks may watch Rambo and think that's how it is done, but too many also listen to arm chair commando's and interwebz experts.

A single shot shotgun has one thing going for it. It is cheap.

That is its ONLY advantage.

Everything thing else about is backwards.

Under stress, and I don't care what country you are in, your fine motor cordination goes up the creek. Having to do two things with boths hands is a recipie for disaster. K.I.S.S. doesn't apply anywhere more than gunfighting.

Yes you can learn to use a single well. But this takes time and money and dedication.

Honestly, which is easier? Breaking open a single, using the other hand to load a shell into a rather small hole, getting the single closed, getting a firing grip on the gun again and shooting, Or working a slide, and pulling the trigger?

I'm not saying the OP should buy a pump. I personally prefer semi auto rifles for HD over shotguns. The OP says he has, at his disposal, a repeater and a single shot. So you can disregard any argument here about price. It is all about handling.

Quite a few people have said they can run a single shot as easily as a pump, some say it can be faster. I'm simply saying BS to that.

Others have said the sound of your single going off (and the first dose of buckshot) will finish the fight, reducing the need to learn to reload fast. Again BS.

There is a chance that the noise of a well aimed center mass shot will not kill the badguy, but may scare them off. This is true. But do you want to rely on it?

It MIGHT also serve in a single badguy situation which you do have more of in USA than we have here, but and this is the big but, DO YOU WANT TO RELY ON THAT?

There seems to be very much hoping for the best case scenario going on here.

I'll plan and train for the worst.

Yes I may live in a different country, and I might have slightly different badguys to deal with, but why oh why limit yourself.And any weapon system that requires you to learn to do things like hold shells in your hand while shooting it is limiting yourself.

KBK
 
I've chosen a pump, but I keep a single shot as a spare. The only time I've had a pump shotgun fail me, it was a broken firing pin in an 870. Replacing it took me a coupla' days, but my single shot was very comforting to have around in the interim. I actually grabbed it to investigate a guy that was in our backyard (turned out to be a tech from the phone company). The small single shot was never seen by the tech.

My light, compact single shot makes a great travel and camp gun.

It isn't my choice for defense, but if that was all that I had, I would be far from unarmed.

Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
 
King Ghidora:
your semi friend chose to join a motor cycle gang, the family chose to show up and shoot at each other. majority of drive by shooting are either your gang was on my turf or so and so @#$%ed so and so out of their drugs most voilance in the U.S. is from some one known to the victim. By chosing not to hang out with low lifes to start with I cut my chances of being a part of violance by about 95%

The majority of my home defence is defending the chickens from fox or coyotes or the garden from coons or other critters. In todays economy that is important too!

This is where a single shot shines I can switch from buckshot to slugs to birdshot in no time. And I can run a single fast. I was once told It could not be me shooting because no one can shoot a single shot that fast.

Because of the choices I have made chances are that if I do have to deal with a bad guy He will be a druggy looking for easy drug money not some one with a vindetta because I screwed them
Roy
 
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A single shot shotgun has one thing going for it. It is cheap.

That is its ONLY advantage.

Everything thing else about is backwards.
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A sniper rifle is, for all intents and purposes, a single shot weapon. It's also one of the most deadly weapons on the battlefield for one reason. It's used as a sniper rifle, not as anything else. Sniper rifles tend to suck at CQB, though. And before you say it, I can go down to the local pawn shop and pick up a half a dozen rifles, all under $100, that can be used as perfectly serviceable sniper rifles. They're cheap, too....and yet, they work. why is that?

The weapon you have dictates its own tactics. If you try to fight your weapon in a way that it's not best used, you're on the losing team before you even begin.

rich
 
A sniper rifle is, for all intents and purposes, a single shot weapon. It's also one of the most deadly weapons on the battlefield for one reason.
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Yes, but such a weapon is meant to be used hundreds, if not MANY hundreds, of yards away vs. the, lets say, 3 to 15 yards of an "HD specific" weapon. Hence, we are talking about hundreds of yards away from an aggressor vs mere feet. When mere feet are the only thing separating you from the aggressor, having a single shot weapon just might involve quite a bit more than "tactics" and/or skill...in other words, LUCK and PRAYER.

Regarding this single shot business, I just can't get past the idea of what you might do should the single round within this gun fail to fire at the worst possible moment. Unless you are exceptionally adept at quick reloads and/or have several more replacement rounds easily available to you (all of this assuming you even have enough time to do something about it), well....I'm sure your imagination can take it from there.

Also, God forbid you end up having to deal with multiple (and again, God forbid, intelligent and/or highly capable) individuals, if that single round does indeed fire, you are then essentially left with a bludgeoning item only. If your would-be attackers are not scared off nor impressed by your initial display of aggression, then you might be in a heap-load of trouble at that point.

Sure, a single shot is better than nothing at all. But, I would be dubious about using such a weapon for HD as it puts you in the "all or nothing" category. To me, thats just too scary of a category to be in when it comes to defending ones life or the lives of loved ones.

So, to sum up my .02 cents worth, its a bad and potentialy deadly idea.
 
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With out reading every single post here, I saw a video of Clint Smith useing a single shot NEF Rifle for a HD weapon. Any ony that would rule out one of these isnt necessairly a fool but they do not consider hard training. clint was laying out a shot every 2-3 seconds, where its not an auto loader lever of fire it is a lever, bold gun level of fire, these were aimed shots too. With practice these can make a mean hd weapon.
 
You'd be better off with a sword to tell the truth.

BTW deer are much easier to kill than some other animals. I was using a strong load when I shot that fox 3 times. And coons are far tougher than foxes. And then there's wild boar. I would be looking for a tree to climb if I was only packing a 20 ga.. And of course there's the bear that keeps marking it's territory in my yard. I 12 ga. slug will have a much better chance of killing that bear if push comes to shove. But I would actually prefer my 30.06 for that job. There's no way I would use a 20 ga. on it no matter what kind of load it had in it.
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Wow... Just wow.

Custer's guys had single shots...the Sioux had winchesters. Think about it.
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And this old myth has been thoroughly debunked.
 
King,

I would more trust a 12 ga slug to stop a vehicle than 4 or 5 rounds of 9mm. Since the 12 ga will be coming from a platform with more sight radius and a shoulder stock, there's a much better chance of hitting your target, too. If the "homies" are riding by spraying your house, you won't have much time to return fire, either, so that one good shot would be preferable.

In my opinion. Then again, my father took multiple shots on running rabbits with a single-shot. In front of two witnesses. But he was good at anything involving proprio-kinesthetic sense.

Like I said, I would do better with the shotgun than several 9mm rounds. Maybe you're the exception, and can use a 9mm better.

Again, a repeater is better in general- if it's a longarm.

John
 
I'm considering buying my dad one for home defense, since he's relying on a 1970 Winchester .22 for defense, and let's face it - that just doesn't have stopping power.

The reason I like the single shot is its simplicity - you can buy one without worrying about parts malfunctioning, and can readily inspect the condition of most of it. That, and the mechanism of manual loading make it reliable, since it relies on the user.

The only thing is that the barrel is a bit long on most of them, I'd prefer an 18" barrel for home defense, for maneuverability purposes, over a 28" (what I own). I can deal with the extra 2" on the barrel of my 11-48 in the event someone breaks in to my house.
 
Single-shot actions are shorter than other types. You shouldn't have a problem finding a 22" barrel, I would think. :)

J
 
a shot every 2-3 seconds,
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I can shoot faster than that with my plain old hunting shotgun, having shot less than 100 rounds through it this year.

The reason I like the single shot is its simplicity
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You might want to consider a dobule barrel, it's like a single shot with extra capacity.
 
With practice these can make a mean hd weapon.
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True. But, then again, so could a bow and arrow. :rolleyes: ;)

Just because a select few are able to demonstrate vast capability with a particular weapon, does not necessarily make it "ideal" for home defense. Heck, Im willing to bet that there are at least a couple of individuals roaming this planet of ours who are capable enough to take out multiple opponents with a fork. Would this then make a fork a viable HD weapon? C'mon!!

Seriously, with all of the great HD capable weapons available these days, why would one even consider a single shot weapon for such use? I just don't get this.... It simply makes no sense.

Regarding the "simplicity" of this particular type of shotgun...If you truly want simple, then just grab a knife or a bat. Honestly, how "complicated," for instance, is a pump action shotgun or a revolver? Heck, even semi-automatics arent necessarily "complicated" with appropriate practice.

I dont mean to start a flame war here; Im just being brutally honest. Hence, I firmly believe a single shot weapon has no practical place when it comes to use as a serious HD weapon.
 
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There's a difference between "Is ideal for home defense" and "Will work for home defense."

My Honda Fit is not "ideal" for hauling lumber, but I have carried plenty a 2x4 home in it.

So if a single shot is what you've got, and you need it... use it. If you have a .22... use it. Heck, if you've got a scuba spear gun, use that.
 
So if a single shot is what you've got, and you need it... use it. If you have a .22... use it. Heck, if you've got a scuba spear gun, use that.
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I agree. However..(as posted by the originator of this thread):

before anyone starts screaming to get a handgun or a pump or even a lever action for greater capacity, I have them all and know they would likely be superior, however, I am curious about everyone's thoughts on this...
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The single shot he speaks of is not his only weapon....hence, he has other options available to him. He asked for thoughts...I gave them (in addition to my response to an earlier post, of course).
 
Comfort with the weapon and peace of mind is more important than the caliber itself. Comfort=lack of fear. Lack of fear=disrupting the attacker's intent.

If you need one more shot in most situations of home defense, you are already dead.

One well placed shot should cease most commonly occuring home invasions, even if there is more than one attacker. In most cases, unless they are hardened felons who just escaped from a correctional institution, the others will run as soon as one is hit -- I read this time and time again in again in "Armed Citizen" (http://www.nrapublications.org/AC/index.asp) and I personally believe one shot should cause most people to run or retreat.

Still, I own a pump because that is what I prefer; but I don't think I am in a better position than a single shot.
 
If you need one more shot in most situations of home defense, you are already dead.
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This I do not firmly believe as there are far too many variables at play here to truly justify such a comment as being "fact."

Robert, I concede that most HD encounters, more than likely, would be over within the first few shots (according to various "data" anyway). However, I personally am not willing to bet my life on such "statistical" data, nor any weapon that "relies" on such data....are you?

Regardless, lets say that single shot misses its mark for some reason and/or possibly fails to deter a violent encounter. What then? Also, lets not forget that the ammuntion itself may fail to fire. Again...what then? With a multiple round shotgun (or any other such weapon), the possibility exists for simply ejecting the faulty round and quickly replacing it with another. In regards to the single shot variety, this process would require much more effort, particularly under the stressful conditions surrounding a violent encounter. Lets also not forget about how one would go about "practically" storing additional ammo, readily available, for this single shot weapon should more than a single round be required.

Im not saying that the single shot shotgun isnt deadly or that it is incapable of deterring a violent encounter. Im merely saying that it just may put an individual in the (as I mentioned in an earlier post) "all or nothing" category.

To me, this is just too risky and much more ripe with disaster potential when compared to more "capable" or "ideal" HD weaponry.
 
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Can we settle this?

If you have the funds to buy one, a repeater gives the user more options than a single-shot.

If you only have a single-shot, you are not helpless.

A longarm is better than a sidearm for everything except concealed carry.

John
 
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