Single Stage or Progressive as First Press

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nordaim

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Reloading is my current deep interest for the shooting hobby and am looking at getting a reloading setup as my Christmas gift to myself, hence my threads on this subject.

With that comes the question detailed in my subject. Would you recommend a Single Stage or a Progressive as a starting press?

Come spring I am looking to be shooting heavily, upwards of 1000 rounds a week and though a Single Stage would let me load as needed, I know that the time involved could be extensive to meet my ammunition needs. Hence I am thinking of foregoing a single stage and just getting a progressive off the bat.

Any thoughts on this subject?
 
If you're pretty certain you're going to stick with it and not become overwhelmed by the initial learning curve, I'd say go for the progressive.

Everyone is going to say "Get a Dillon 550" over and over and it'll get old ... but you should listen to them! Hard to beat the 550 for ease of use, ease of setup and quality of the machine. Plus, its hard to beat the Dillon promise.
 
I have both and even while I'm loading on on the progressive I find the single stage useful, especially when fixing loads during the first few tweaking rounds through the progressive. It's just so much faster to switch over the single stage for little batches and fixes.

I wouldn't want to be without either. I make my precision rifle loads on the single stages as well as .50 AE and most other pistol goes through the progressive.

If you know you're going to get a progressive my vote is to get a Lee Aniversary Kit and once you're comfortable and have the basics down you'll be in a better position to decied on the kind of progressive you want / need and can still use the equipment you've already invested in.

I was sharing a RCBS Special 5 with a roomate. I got a Lee Load Master for Christmas. When the roomate moved out I got the Anniverery kit to fill in the void of now missing equipment and the only thing I've added to it since are an RCBS powder trickler and a Cabela's digital scale.

Obviously you're going to make the best for you but I hope my experiances here help you decided.
 
Snowman makes some good points about both. Can't go wrong either way
I did start with my 550 back then it was a 450. I started by using it like a
turret press put one shell in and do each step on it till I got to under stand
what I was doing. The started to add more shells till each pull of the handle I got a new round.


It does sound like you are serious about shooting and reloading. Hope you like the press you buy and get a lot of use out of it.
 
Snowman makes some good points about both. Can't go wrong either way
I did start with my 550 back then it was a 450. I started by using it like a
turret press put one shell in and do each step on it till I got to under stand
what I was doing. The started to add more shells till each pull of the handle I got a new round.


It does sound like you are serious about shooting and reloading. Hope you like the press you buy and get a lot of use out of it.
 
Single stage!!!!!!!!!!! Hands down!
I've had my RCBS Rockchucker now 14yrs. Yes it's alittle slow, but one day I load 45s then 06, then .223 then maybe some 38s and so on.
Built like a tank!

Dillon.......to much Plastic crap!:barf:
 
Your Quote

"Come spring I am looking to be shooting heavily, upwards of 1000 rounds a week and though a Single Stage would let me load as needed, I know that the time involved could be extensive to meet my ammunition needs. Hence I am thinking of foregoing a single stage and just getting a progressive off the bat."


If you are sure you will shoot that many rounds a week, a progressive press seems your only logical choice.

To load 1000 rounds a week on a Single Stage you would need more time than you will actually spend on reloading. People can say they load that number of rounds a week on a single stage but few really do, week in and week out. If your estimated ammunition needs are realistic then I think a reliable, relatively simple progressive is the best way to go. A Dillon 550 is a good choice for most people.

Regards,
 
A friend of mine a few years ago showed me how to load on Lee single stage. It was prior to me have any equiptment. It was very good stuff, However, I could not get over spending 2 hours to load 100 or so rounds.

I looked around at reloaders and chose a dillion 550. Best investment I could make. Not sure what Plastic PDShooter is talking about, unless it is the plastic bullet holding trays... The 550 is built solid, easy to cchange calibers, and can load pistol and rifle with correct conversion kit and dies. Now I can load those 100 quality consistant rounds in less than 20 minutes. Some people can load them faster, 450 an hour.

Buy the best stuff you can first, you'll waste less money and time in the long run....
 
Another 2centz for a single-stage press.When used properly, they are not that slow. I rarely use my 550 anymore unless I need a bunch of .45 in a hurry. Its too much of a pain to swap all the crap in and out, endlessly adjust, and the powder thrower is a joke:cuss:
Most of my loading anymore is experimental, and the Dillon doesn't lend itself to anything other than cookbook, cut & dried stuff. Did I mention that awful powder thrower:mad: ?
It seems to me that most of the guys that holler loudest for progressives tend to see reloading as a chore, & a necessary evil.
I see it as a fascinating hobby, where I can learn new things constantly.:p
Just another take...:uhoh:

Tom
 
Single stage is a lot easier to learn on because it is simpler. Less is going on at once so you can stop, check and be sure you are doing it right. Once you really get going and understand the principles then move up to a progressive.

I started out on a lee handloader for over 10 years till I moved to a rockchucker that I still use for rifle only. It was only 3 years ago that I switched to a pro2000.
 
Plastic crap on a Dillon?? NOT!!

I like the dillon 550 also,and since it 's not a true progressive(self-advancing) you CAN load one rounda at a time all day long and still be faster than any single stageI can load one round in under ten seconds...but then I've had mine for 10 years. :)
I started on a Lee singel stage,and if I had to do it all over I'd gert the dillon and use it single-stage for the first fifty or 100 rounds to be sure everything is working AND I understood what the ides do,and then run it fulll of brass but go slow and steady.If you try to set speed records yo're gonna mess something up,and the time to fix your goof up will tell ay to "slow down and enjoy the moment."
Wear safety glasses!! Maybe even ear protection. Ya just never know.
I'll admit their are better measures than the dillon,but for everyday shooting and plinking it is just fine.Not good with "stick" rifle powders though.

'
 
With a 1000rd/week habit, you're gonna kill yourself for not buying a progressive 3-4 days after you set up the single stage and use it.

M1911joe has the best advice so far:

I started by using it like a turret press put one shell in and do each step on it till I got to under stand what I was doing.

A progressive press is nothing more than several stages mounted in a ring, and the shellplate (with multiple slots for X number of empty brass casings) rotates to allow the user to service these several casings simultaneously. You can use the progressive like a single stage press [admittedly it is slightly inconvenient, but only slightly, as anyone who's backtracked because of a foulup can tell you]. All you need to do to revert a progressive to single stage is load a single casing only, and remove it when you've finished whatever stage is being performed--you don't need to let the casing rotate and continue cycling in the press; just take the casing out and replace it with another at that same station to learn how each station works and why it functions the way it does.

In my opinion, there are 3 big progressive-press manufacturers out there--Dillon, Hornady, and RCBS. Stay away from the RCBS 2000; users are running into an unforeseen 'marketing' problem--RCBS requires a special 'priming strip' to load primers into their machine. At one time, these were bountiful, and provided with the primers when sold. However, the strip method has become 'unpopular', and they're becoming both harder to find and are no longer free (I can't remember the surcharge; for some reason $2.50 sticks in my head; CCI sells them with the primers if you can find them, but they'r now charging for the strip. Savvy RCBS 2000 owners are saving the strips, but it means the user has to spend time loading the primers into these strips.)

Everyone touts the Dillon 550 and 650. Some like the Hornady LNL AP. Dillon has the corner on the market but in my opinion the Hornady is the better product for the money. In my opinion, the reason Dillon has the majority of the market is marketing savvy. (I liken it to the difference in popularity between the television-related VHS and Beta formatted recording tapes--Beta was acknowledgely better--but it was poorly marketed and just slightly late.)

The Dillon 550 is a 4-stage progressive (~$329), requiring a little ~ >$100 per caliber for true "3 minute change-outs" to switch from one caliber to another (this includes a separate powder-measure for each toolhead to allow for a 'no-hassle' caliber swap). You might find this press discounted by middle men. EBay 'buy it now' is $269.

The Dillon 650 (~$430) is their more capable machine with 5 stations instead of the 550's 4-stations, requiring the same ~ >$100 for "3 minute change-outs". You might find this press discounted about 10% new from middle men. $389 on EBay

No Dillon press is sold by any online "vendor" that I know of (i. e., Midway, Midsouth, Natchez, Widener's, etc.) That's not to say the middlemen aren't trustworthy; it's just to point out that really deep discounts may not be available. Also, most guys will tell you to buy the stand (called 'Strong Mount) and handle. This will set you back an extra ~$65. The common opinion is the Dillons are 'under-leveraged' without these add-ons. Nothing that doesn't come warrantied with the initially purchased Dillon package comes free. That's my biggest beef with Dillon. It's a great marketing scheme, but as a consumer, I steer clear of it. A Dillon system can 'nickle and dime' you to death in $25 increments.

Hornady LNL AP is a 5-station progressive (~$400) requiring about $45-75 per caliber for true "three-quarters of a minute change-outs" to switch from one caliber to another (this includes a 'no-hassle' powder meter swap. The variable $45-75 depends on if you need a different shellplate. Powder meters cost ~$6.50 each and takes 4 seconds if you're a monkey. The comparable changeout on a Dillon is to replace the entire powder measure (or, alternatively, one buys an adaptor 'wing-nut', swaps powder bars, and moves the powder measure from toolhead to toolhead; but the wingnut is somewhere ~$10-20 as I recall, and you still need a powder bar for each caliber, plus allow for the time to swap all this out every time and adjust it all for drop height and throw.) Or you could do what some users do, by a Hornady LNL powder drop, the different powder meters, an adaptor, and mount it on the Dillon press. (I might add that the reason most of these users switch out the Dillon powder measure for the Hornady version is because they say they get more accurate and consistent powder drops with a Hornady.) But what would you do with your Dillon powder measure? Hmm. My bias is showing:D . The LNL AP is sold by all the vendors I mentioned above, and sometimes they're on sale. A quick check shows them selling for $315-330 now. A year ago, I got mine from Widener's on sale for $290 including shipping (Widener's ships everything except ammo and it's components free if the purchase is > $100.)

If you tally up expenses (for changing calibers) and the price for the 650 vs. the LNL AP, I'd guess that it would cost about $175-200 more to set up a Dillon 650 (with mount and handle) in 2 calibers; add an average of an extra $50 for each additional caliber, over a Hornady setup. I doubt anyone will argue too much with what I claim here.
 
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I personally wouldn't want to get along without both. If I was allowed only one, it would be the progressive: Dillon 550.
The reason is simple enough; the progressive will do everything the single stage will, but not the other way around.

I spent many years hunched over that single stage (RCBS Rockchucker) trying to keep up with my shooting needs. I am stubborn and sometimes find myself doing stupid stuff just to avoid going with the crowd. One by one, all my friends got Dillon loaders. I told them that my ammo was better because I took extra steps to ensure it's quality. I told them my ammo was safer because I had more control over the process................ In reality I was jealous that they had better equipment and could shoot more while spending less time loading. When I was loading on that single stage exclusively, I used to go out and it actually pained me to shoot because I knew how much work went into loading that ammo and couldn't stand the thought that it was gone in an instant. I couldn't deal with the fact that I might spend an hour to load ammo that could be gone in minutes which in turn caused me another hour of work.

swifter makes some valid points about progressive machines. If you arn't interested in saving time while loading then the progressive is not for you. Like anything else, you need to use the right tool for the job. I wouldn't buy a top of the line Ferrari to go to the grocery store. It doesn't have enough room in it.
I still use my single stage press frequently. There are all kinds of loading tasks that makes it handy to have around. In addition to the miscellaneous chores I still do all of my rifle loading on the single stage, as well as the hangun cartridges I don't shoot a whole lot of. I have complete tool head set-ups for my Dillon 550 including powder measure and all. When I change calibers I just take one head off and put the other one on (along with changing out the shell plate of course). If I find myself starting to shoot some caliber a lot more than I used to, I buy the full set-up for the Dillon. Up until that time, I load for that caliber on the single stage.

Plastic Crap on a Dillon. I am trying to think: the roller handle is plastic, the powder reservoir is plastic: would be kind of hard to see though metal, the bin that catches the loaded ammo is plastic. Anything else ?
When loading with my RCBS Rockchucker single stage press I use an RCBS Uniflow powder measure which has a plastic reservoir, the handle on the press is plastic, and I put the loaded ammo into a plastic bin.
 
Another R.C.B.S. "Rockchucker" fan here!:)

I upgraded back in 2000 from the old R.C.B.S.
"Jr." press to the "Rockchucker Master Reloading
Kit"; and have never looked back. Slow, yes indeed
but I feel that this cut's the possibly of error's down
to a nil. :D ;) Firearm's are too damn expensive
to run the risk of blowing them up, from a major
malfunction.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
First reloading press

Another vote for the RCBS Rockchucker here. Best starter there is. Get that and the Master kit and a set of dies in XX caliber and you're about set.

BUT... before you buy a press of any type, know what you're getting into, and have an idea of the other stuff you'll need. So STUDY FIRST!!! Read The ABC's of Reloading (Krause Publications) it is as good an intro as you can get. Why Not Load Your Own by Col. Townsend Whelen, is dated but explains some basic concepts very well also. Then you want reference books. The first should be (IMHO) Lyman's 48th Reloading Handbook. Gives tested recipies for loading a huge variety of cartridges. More is better in reference books. All the component manufacturers put them out in 1 form or another, some as freebies. The max loads are labelled max for a reason. Don't exceed them. Don't start with them.

Most reloaders of my acquaintance are happy to share their hard-won knowledge with a newbie.

I have come around to seeing that a progressive has a use if you are cranking out high volumes of ammo, for example if you shoot a bullseye pistol league. (I admit, I didn't used to think thus.) So you may want one of those too, but for my money the single stage is where to learn on, and you will always need it for load development and making small batches. And I still believe that a single-stage gets you more accurate ammo if out-and-out accuracy is your goal.

BTW, welcome to the club. It's a fine obsession. Will keep you out of mischief and in the poorhouse for the rest of your life if yo let it. :D
 
I started with the 550B, and as above, used it like 4 single stage presses. Honestly, I have rarely seen a progressive used in full operation, but you can. That is the beauty, single or progressive, you can do that with only the single...

Mine has functioned perfectly...

Safe Reloading, Always!!!
 
i got my first press a couple of years ago in a trade for a gun and cash. its a 650 and while it required some help from a knowledgable reloader and a lot of hands-on learning, i would recommend it. it will crank out cowboy type loads by the bushel or i can weigh each load when necessary and i often do. but the cost of the conversion kits add up over time.
 
I have had a Dillon 550 for three years or so, and like it. I've had an RCBS single stage for thirty years and love it.

I recommend starting with the single stage. They're much easier to learn with, and it's easier to keep up with what you're doing and what effect your actions are having on the loads.

Double charges, missed charges, failure to feed a primer, sticky indexing, etc. are all things that happen on a Dillon. None are a big deal if you're paying close attention and know how to make the appropriate corrections.
 
I started with a Lee Challenger kit and today all I have left from that kit are the dies. I do not feel any of the other items in the kit are really built to last. I moved on to the Dillon 550B and it is a great press in my book. I have never felt the need for any of the add ons that they sell. I have a pretty solid bench so that may have something to do with it. I have since gotten a couple of Dillon 650 presses and like them as well. You can use the Dillon 550B as a single stage press or in a "turret" style as well. Just run the cases through one at a time. You can do that till you feel comfortable and then utilize the press to its "full" potential and really start to crank out the ammo!!!

If I were to have started all over again and chose to start with a single stage setup, I would like to have bought a RCBS Rock Chucker kit. I have a Rock Chucker and it will last a lifetime. The RCBS scales are also built better than the Lee. You can get the stuff used really cheap sometimes if you are lucky enough to find someone whose getting out of the hobby for some reason. I know I have gotten most of my equipment that way.

The guys on Ebay selling the 550B for $269 sell them without a conversion kit....so the true difference compared to Dillon's factory price (which comes with the conv. kit) is not all that great. I sell used ones I find for $250 plus actual shipping.
 
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet?

When I switched from a couple of old single-stage presses, went with Dillon's AT500. Was a great way to get used to a multi-fucntion press!
Then bought the upgrad kits to make it a 550.

Dillon may be the Master's of self-promotion but no one can argue that they don't back-up ther machines with free paarts, etc.
 
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