single-trigger SXS--second shot doesn't always fire

[sqroot3]

Hello again,

I have an old (1930s, based on serial number) 12ga western arms (ithaca) "long range" single-trigger side-by-side shotgun that has a funny habit of not discharging the second shot consistently. The first shot always goes off, but about half the time, the second trigger pull is a dud--no click, just a long travel and no boom. if i pull the trigger enough times or play around with the tang-mounted safety, it'll eventually fire...usually in a somewhat surprising fashion.

for whatever it's worth, the gun is missing its buttplate--I'm just using a slip-on recoil pad. could my problem have anything to do with the notion that the gun is reset to the second chamber by recoil, and the recoil, particularly with no buttplate installed, isn't sufficient to do its job reliably?

Thanks!

 

[oneounceload]

It could also just need a good cleaning on the insides - maybe some gunk near the firing pin preventing it from traveling completely

 

[Bud Tugly]

Cleaning will very likely help lots, but don't some single trigger guns have to be held very firmly so the recoil can "set" the second trigger? I'm far from an expert since I've never owned a single-trigger SxS, but I've heard if the gun is held too loosely the second barrel may not fire on some of them.

Hopefully someone with actual knowledge of the workings of these guns will jump in and enlighten us.

 

[sqroot3]

would the cleaning you describe require some more-than-basic knowledge of gunsmithing? i can find diagrams of the action, but i'm wary of taking it apart...i'm afraid i won't be able to put it back together!

 

[oneounceload]

Depends on the triggers - some are mechanical, some are inertia set and need the recoil. I don't know if his gun is mechanical or inertia. A buttplate missing won't hamper the recoil to set a trigger. IF you can easily remove the butt stock, you should be able to get something like brake cleaner in the crevices to flush anything out (or use CLP or similar); once clean, apply a light coating of lubricant/protective (especially if you used brake cleaner). If the gun has ejectors, I would spray a good cleaner in there as well, and then apply a light coating of oil.

 

[sqroot3]

I'll look into removing the stock. is there any way to tell whether the trigger is set by inertia or mechanically set? when i dry-fire, the first hammer drops, but the second one generally does not (can't remember the last time it did). this makes it sound like an inertia trigger.

 

[Owen]

after you dryfire the first round, whack the butt with your hand. if it will then fire, its inertia

 

[sqroot3]

owen, i tried that yesterday, and the second one didn't go off. maybe i didn't whack hard enough. anyway, it's probably time for a trip to the gunsmith if that doesn't work.

 

[oneounceload]

After you pull the trigger, see if it will fire the second. If not, a bump of the stock on your hand will set an inertia trigger.

If you are unsure, a trip to the smith shouldn't be too expensive - but do yourself a favor and do not go to some "shade-tree bubba". Find someone who knows older guns like yours, and knows what to look for as far as worn parts, etc.....

Good luck!

 

[sqroot3]

I took off the trigger plate and had a lookat the action inside. the trigger reset is mechanical, not inertial. there was a trigger tension spring on each side of the trigger and only one of the two springs was engaged. this caused the trigger to wobble and i think this is why the second trigger pull didn't routinely trip the sear. (sorry, i know very little about naming the internals of a firearm.) i replaced this trigger tension spring and both chambers dry-fire. (gotta resist the temptation to keep on doing that...)

i noticed the tang-mounted trigger safety wasn't engaged with the lever that physically blocks the trigger, but I couldn't get the lever in the right place when replacing the trigger plate. I guess this explains why the safety never worked

 

[oneounceload]

Great! Sounds like you have it figured out. For practice get a set of the aluminum AZOOMS "dummy rounds" (aka snap caps) - that will help protect your firing pins from any possible damage

 

[rcmodel]

You need to fix the safety so it works, whatever it takes to do so.

I understand You know it doesn't work.

But the next person who shoots or owns it after you may not be so smart, or lucky!

What you have there now is a Booby-Trap for the unsuspecting who expects a safety to really be a Safety.

And yes, I know the 10 Rules rules of gun safety, plus "keep your finger off the trigger", "safety is in your head", etc. etc. etc.

rc

 

[sqroot3]

yessir.