SKS Help

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madmike

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Friend of mine got an SKS cheap, with extraction problems. It has the gas cut off and grenade launcher attachment.

Feeds and ejects live cartridges (without firing) just fine.

Shoots fine, has a partial recoil of the carrier but locks closed, has to be forced/banged open.

Tested with empties.
Empty cartridges lock action closed. Trigger does not operate during this test. Must be forced, banged open.

Found minor burrs on extractor and breech, polished both. Slight improvement in action but not a fix.

Any ideas?
 
Seems to me that if the polish helped thats your problem. Try a new extractor and spring.
 
First of all I'd suggest a thorough cleaning and inspection of the chamber. Yugos aren't chrome lined, and it's quite possible that there is some accumulated firing residue and/or corrosion damage causing the cases to stick.

Secondly, I'd do the same for the gas system components. Pay special attention to the secondary piston and spring in the tunnel in the rear sight base. Might be a good idea to run through the gas volume adjustment drill afterwards, especially if the port shows clear and all of the energy-transfering parts that should move do so without undue resistance.

If your gas tube is heavily pitted and/or worn, giving a real sloppy fit with the primary piston, I'd replace them.

I don't think that the extractor or its spring are the culprits here, as the bolt/carrier would most likely just pull loose from the case and continue the cycle, jamming when the new cartridge ran into the fired case in the chamber if it wasn't getting a good grip.
 
mainmech48 said:
First of all I'd suggest a thorough cleaning and inspection of the chamber. Yugos aren't chrome lined, and it's quite possible that there is some accumulated firing residue and/or corrosion damage causing the cases to stick.

Appears clean, and cycles flawlessly with loaded cartridges when manually cycling.

Secondly, I'd do the same for the gas system components. Pay special attention to the secondary piston and spring in the tunnel in the rear sight base. Might be a good idea to run through the gas volume adjustment drill afterwards, especially if the port shows clear and all of the energy-transfering parts that should move do so without undue resistance.

If your gas tube is heavily pitted and/or worn, giving a real sloppy fit with the primary piston, I'd replace them.

They appear fine and have been cleaned. I don't think that's the problem. The problem is the breech jams closed, but ONLY with fired cases, NOT with unfired cases. I can insert them into the bore by hand easily enough, and remove them without undue effort.

I'm absolutely boggled, because LIVE CARTRIDGES cycle through fine and will fire. But once the cartridge is fired it taked a fist or mallet on the charging handle to open. And inserting a fired cartridge results in the same problem, so it's not the action of firing that causes the jam. Nor will the trigger function when an empty case is used for the test.

So:

insert live cartridges in magazine. Manual cycle check. Fire check. Open and eject fail.

Insert live cartridge by hand. Cycle check. Fire check. Open and eject check with unfired cartridge. Open and eject fail if fired.

Insert fired case in magazine or breech. Fire fail. Open and eject fail.

I don't think that the extractor or its spring are the culprits here, as the bolt/carrier would most likely just pull loose from the case and continue the cycle, jamming when the new cartridge ran into the fired case in the chamber if it wasn't getting a good grip.

Is it possible the chamber tolerance is too long on length, causing a case with no bullet to seat excessively deep and jam? Though I would think repeated use of the same case would cause it to get forced to a workable shape.

Using Wolf steel case ammo.
 
Steel case ammo expands like brass case ammo when fired but it doesn't retract the same. That's part of the reason it gives some guns fits and probably why you can't chamber a used case. I would bet that the problem with that rifle is in the gas valve area and something is leaking so the piston isn't getting shoved back hard enough to eject the cases. When sks's are running right they will really fling cases pretty far. I know sometimes when I shoot steel case ammo in my bolt action mosin nagant I have had shells get stuck but brass case ammo is fine. Mark
 
railroader said:
Steel case ammo expands like brass case ammo when fired but it doesn't retract the same. That's part of the reason it gives some guns fits and probably why you can't chamber a used case. Mark

But I can chamber it by hand and extract it. It feeds easily enough. The bolt just won't unlock. And the hammer won't fall either, but ONLY with fired cases. It fires with a live cartridge or empty. Very odd.
 
But I can chamber it by hand and extract it. It feeds easily enough. The bolt just won't unlock. And the hammer won't fall either, but ONLY with fired cases. It fires with a live cartridge or empty. Very odd.
It's actually NOT odd - mainmech48 and railroader have probably given you the clues you need to fix this. It's almost certainly a combination of heat and pressure and chamber gook and steel cased ammo.

1) Open the mag well or drop the mag entirely, remove the bolt cover/bolt, liberally drip laquer thinner or another solvent on a bronze 45cal rifle bore brush that you've threaded onto the end of a short cleaning rod, insert the brush into the chamber, and spin it with vigor while working it back and forth slightly. Keep doing this until you get so tired of it you can't stand it any longer, and then do it some more. This will remove the crap from the chamber that shooting Wolf has deposited. It's likely that these laquer/enamel deposits, coupled with the fact that steel cases aren't as 'springy' as brass ones, are the cause of your issue. This cleaning will take a LONG TIME - do not get tired and stop until you can use a bore light and see that the chamber walls are absolutely spotlessly smooth and clean. I use a drill on the end of the rod, just because I'm lazy. :rolleyes: I've had at least one SKS that took three brushes to get clean. Trust us on this - just do it.

2) I know you said that you've done this, but humor me just for good measure - release and remove the gas cylinder tube housing and ensure that the gas pistol falls out when you hold it vertically without impediment. Also, remove the gas cylinder extension rod and make sure that it also is free of carbon or rust. It's very common for the gas cylinder extension (the rear one) to be pretty nasty/dirty/rusty and not really move all that well. CLP is your friend here.

Any questions on this, just follow these instructions for takedown.
 
I'll give the chamber a good scrubbing. The gas system was already done and should be fine. I can swap over with my SKS for a check.

I'd like to use some brass cases to compare. Though I use Wolf by the thousand in my .45 and AR without any trouble at all.

If that doesn't fix it, I suppose I can keep swapping components until we get it so it does work and go from there:)
 
Mike, I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a headspace problem in the mix too. Your mentioning that the trigger mechanism fails to release when a fired case is in the chamber is what's got me curious. Sounds to me as if the disconnector won't let the sear trip due to the bolt being either too far in or out of its correct "battery" position. It wouldn't take much to do it.

FWIW, if you've got a line on someone who has a copy of the AGI SKS armorer's video, or your buddy is willing to spring for same, it'd likely be a big help sorting this one out. It's real tough for me to make more than a semi-educated guess about what's going on without being able to examine the weapon personally. Even then, working without at least some precision measuring tools and reference dimensions for critical components can make it tough. Though the tolerances on Soviet-designed military stuff tend to be pretty generous, we're still talking in fractions of a millimeter and the unaided eye just can't discern that small a difference.
 
Okay, after further study:

Chamber is a bit rough.

My rifle has the same problems with the empties, even though it fires fine.

Inserting a live round by hand and removing it is easy in both. Removing a fired case by hand is near impossible, requiring tools. This includes one inserted by hand, not fed by the action.

So both seem to have tight tolerances on the chamber vis a vis steel case ammo.

But mine functions with it. This indicates his gas system isn't quite as potent, or that his chamber is a little tighter.

His has the grenade launcher cutoff and mechanism. Would this substantially affect things? Any specific things to do when cleaning and assembling it, as far as setting it to work right?
 
Any fired case, brass or whatever, is going to be a tight fit even in the chamber from which it was originally fired. After being fully seated, it might well have to be forced out especially from the chamber of another rifle. That unfired cartridges slide in and out effortlessly is also the norm.

In a BA, benchrest and target shooters can get away with neck sizing cases for a couple of reasons: the cartridges are seldom required to feed from a magazine, the primary extraction system has a great deal of mechanical advantage in terms of both leverage and camming action compared with most other action types, and the lock-up of the breech is extremely consistent and rigid.

Many reloading equipment manufacturers recommend the use of special "small-base" dies for ammunition that is to be used in lever, pump, or semi-auto actions to ensure that case dimensions are returned to as near SAAMI minimum spec as possible to head off feeding and extraction problems, even if the ammo is to be used in the same rifle it was originally fired from.

The curious part of your problem to me is that so much force is required to remove a fired case. All four of my own SKSes have chromed chambers and barrels. Even after a couple of hundred rounds without cleaning I can chamber and extract a fired case without having to use anything other than my hand on the charging handle. That's the main reason I suspect that your chamber isn't as smooth it needs to be for reliable functioning anymore. Something is making it grab the walls of that case more than it should.

Even if both of the examples in question have chambers at the lowest end of the tolerance spread (statisically very unlikely, even given consecutive serial numbers) that still shouldn't happen if the finish texture of the chambers is anywhere near spec. Yugo ammo is indeed brass cased for the most part, but I can't imagine that a Warsaw Pact weapon wouldn't be designed and manufactured to work just as well with the mild steel cases found on the vast majority of 7.62x39 ammo. It just wouldn't make sense, especially in light of the Cold-War-Turns-Hot scenarios of the time.

IIRC, the grenade launching feature is basically a cut-off of the gas system. If that port is closed, either by the switch or obstruction from fouling, it would render the semi-auto functioning null. If inspection with a strong light in the bore doesn't result in seeing light through the gas port, check to make sure that moving the switch indeed opens the port. If it does, run a reaming tool through the port to make sure that it isn't occluded with fouling. If your issue cleaning kit doesn't have one in it already, they're cheap and readily available from many sources.

It is important that all of the operating parts in the gas system move freely. If your primary piston doesn't exhibit full travel without binding when both the cylinder tube itself and the smaller rod tube are clean, find out why and correct it. To check the secondary op rod and its spring, move the lever of the handguard latch on the rear sight housing up until the rod end is clear. It should come out on its own, and with some force, so be ready to catch it. If it doesn't, you've likely found the biggest part of the problem. Scrub out that tunnel with solvent and/or penetrating oil. Get all of the crud or corrosion off the rod. If the spring is corroded, or just feels "weak", replace it. When lightly lubed and reassembled, it should move freely both ways when the head of the rod is pushed with a punch or the piston rod.

It's tough to assess just how rough the far end of your chamber and the neck area really are visually without bore scope, unless things are really pretty close to FUBAR. You might try this trick, though: Take a piece of small-gauge spring wire about five inches or so long and make a 90 degree bend on one end about 1/16" long. Sharpen the end of that to a fine point. Insert it into the chamber as close to the origin of the rifling as possible. Pull it slowly back and forth, paying particular attention to any areas that look even slightly darker than the rest. You should be able to get a reasonable idea of the comparative smoothness of the surface from the feel. Any areas that show marked resistance to a light pull, or "chattering" will tell the tale. it should slide relatively smoothly and quite consistently. If it doesn't, your chamber is damaged, and you should take it to a professional for further evaluation and/or repair.

While cleaning the chamber up with 3-4X steel wool wrapped around an old cleaning brush and soaked in a good penetrating oil like "Liquid Wrench", spun either manually or with an electric drill at very low speed, might help some I would strongly advice against any more agressive polishing agents or methods. Too easy to remove metal, and too hard to do it precisely and evenly. The potential consequences aren't worth risking.
 
The fired cases we tested with were all fired in the Yugo. They are approximately as tight in the Norinco. But the Norinco does function with that same batch of ammo.

I, too, am curious as to why the lockup. It really doesn't make sense. We'll try both another batch of ammo and some brass cases as well.

We'll go through the gas system again.

Chambers don't look nearly as precise as say, an AR's. I'll have someone else check them this weekend at the 1500.
 
I am also having this exact same problem with a Yugo SKS (also using steel case ammo). So is one other guy I know from another forum. Please post if you figure out how to fix this problem.
 
Bane said:
I am also having this exact same problem with a Yugo SKS (also using steel case ammo). So is one other guy I know from another forum. Please post if you figure out how to fix this problem.

Will do. We're test firing again Thursday.

Not that I would have, but I would certainly not give an SKS priority over an AR after this runaround.
 
Hope the repeat testing goes better. Got to admit that this one kinda floors me, as the only functioning probs I've ever had with any of the several SKSes that I've owned have been magazine related. All came with trying either aftermarket hi-caps or in the course of fitting a fixed ChiCom 20-rd. box to a particular action. As long as the numbers matched the receiver, cycling with the issue 10-rd. has been monotonously reliable, even on a medium-rough M-21 battlefield pickup with a badly pitted gas tube.

I still believe that you ought to get the headspace checked out. The only logical reason that I can see for the failure to trip the sear on an empty is the disconnector. That bolt is not returning to full battery lockup, or the hammer would fall. Whatever might be making that case stretch or expand to that degree needs to be identified and corrected before something unpleasant happens.

Before you all fire it again, please try that bent wire trick on a couple of the fired cases to check for signs of impending case head separation. If you feel a "catch" while pulling it up the inside of a case, DO NOT FIRE THE WEAPON!! I'm not sure if steel cases show the same kind of warning that brass ones do. The lacquer coating might hide the little bright "ring" near the head of the case that's a dead giveaway on brass, and steel may not show the stress in the same way. Measuring the case length and comparing the results with listed max/min figures from a manual would be a good idea too. Personally, I'd do both before firing it again. Passing both tests doesn't guarantee that headspace is okay; only gauges can tell you that. But they can warn you that something nasty might be waiting to happen before it can bite you.
 
Same problem...another possibility

I've got the same exact problem except for the trigger not firing when testing with spent cartridge. Sounds like you could have two separate problems that could be clouding resolution.

For the cartridges sticking in the chamber, I have heard a number of ideas ranging from installing a make shift o-ring kit onto the primary gas piston to applying fingernail polish in various areas in the gas system.

Recently I was speaking to an Air-Force vet who said the chamber may be worn out allowing to mucn expansion of the cartridge at the time of firing.

I had not thought of this, but in checking his theory, I have noticed I can wiggle a new live round in the chamber just a tiny bit.

Mainmech48 (or any other authorities in this thread), could this be our problem? If so, what can we do about it? Someone in the thread mentioned their chamber was "chromed." Is this something we could have done?

Incidently brass casings do the same in my SKS, but not quite as severe as my Wolf ammo.


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This is why I spent the few extra 4 for the "unissued" Yugo. No problems whatsoever. I did see the gas seal made of a paperclip - neat idea, but both of mine have no issues, and don't get shot with corrosive ammo, either.
Good luck!
 
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