Slim Hawg, Did I buy a Lemon?

[thercman]

Well, a couple weeks ago the gun showed up at the dealer along with a STI LS9. After comparing two for about an hour I decided on the Hawg. The Para seemed to be of much better quality. The fit was better, it has an aluminum trigger not composite, the sights are nicer the slide locks to the rear and it just felt better in my hand. So off I went to the range. I was short on time and put 73 rounds through it. It had some problems with the slide not closing completely. I actually had to push it closed the last 3/8" or so after many of the rounds. At this point I assumed it needed a break in period. I went home and cleaned the gun and re-lubed it without field stripping it. The next night I went back to the range fired another 177 rounds through it. It still had issues but not as many. So I went home to clean it this time field stripping it. I found the problem! It was a broken return spring plug. At this point I was regretting the purchase. Basically I received a broken gun from the get go. After a trip back to the dealer he ordered me a new part. I came in yesterday and of course I went to the range last night. I put another 100 rounds through it with only one feed issue. During the week and a half of using the range's 3" Kimber I am having serious regrets buying the Hawg now. I could shoot the Kimber amazingly well, 2" groups at 20'. Considering I just started shooting and with a rental gun I think its good anyway. However the Para doesn't seem to do as well. Maybe its me. Tomorrow I am going to put another 100 through it. If I don't like the way it shoots I may just trade it in for a Kimber. What do you all think? Did I get a lemon?

 

[CPshooter]

First of all, I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your new gun. It's not fun and I've gone through it before. It happens though. Moving on...

Para 1911s aren't exactly known for being reliable guns. That's why doing your homework before buying is always your best option. Sure there are plenty of satisfied Para 1911 owners out there, but there are probably just as many disgruntled ones. There's a reason they are hardly ever brought up for discussion on the forums. That reason is probably because the majority of comments made about them is usually negative.

1911s are finicky guns to begin with and many will argue that the newer, tighter-fitting 1911s being made today will never be as reliable as the original spec 1911 designed by JMB. While this might be true, there are plenty of 1911 companies out there today that have found a way to produce their own reliable version of the 1911. Para Ordnance just isn't one of them from my research and hands-on experience.

It definitely sounds like you got a lemon. I'd take it back to the store you bought it from and ask them to give you a reasonable credit towards another gun. If they won't cooperate, sell the gun and take your money elsewhere. Don't waste your money shipping it back and forth to the manufacturer. Trust me..I've done it with Kahr and wasted a lot of time and money.

The 3" Kimbers have a pretty good reputation. Keep in mind that all of the 3" 1911s on the market will have a smaller chance of success than the larger 4 and 5 inch models. It's just the nature of the beast. JMB didn't design it with a 3" barrel, but people wanted it so they built it anyways.

Then again, a 1911 might not be the best choice for someone who just started shooting handguns. They are accurate, but finicky.

If you are going to be carrying this gun for self defense it is extremely important that your gun is reliable.

Keep shooting and remember practice makes perfect..good luck!

 

[thercman]

Thanks for the advice.... Yes I did some research before I bought a 1911 and knew they wold be higher maintenance than some other guns out there. However I like they way they feel in my hand and I definitely shoot them better than other guns I have shot such as the Glock's and the XD's. I bought this gun as a summer carry gun. But if it going to be unreliable they I don't want it. I just hope the custom 5" Fusion I am waiting for will not give me any issues.

 

[CPshooter]

I just hope the custom 5" Fusion I am waiting for will not give me any issues.

Please tell me you aren't going to carry this during the summer!

If you like 1911s and shoot them well then stick with them. Just ditch the Para and go with a Kimber Ultra Carry or Colt Defender! I personally like the combination of a 4" bushingless barrel and a shorter officers/compact grip. Kimber makes a couple 1911s with this combo (ie Compact CDP II).

 

[loop]

As the owner of several small 1911s, including Paras, I've found most of them need minor tuning and then they need to be matched to the ammo.

Just an observation, but I'd start with ordering Wolff extra power mag springs. Then I would carefully clean the inside of the mags and check for any burrs that may be present. Short Paras are particularly susceptible to mag issues. I tear mine down completely and clean the inside every third time they are fired.

Briefly, it sounds like the mag is not pushing the rear end of the cartridge up high enough to get a square shot at the chamber. This can be fixed by increased power in the mag spring.

Timing is a major issue in all 1911s. In shorter guns it must be more precise. Therefore, springs must be more closely matched so they work in concert.

I would start with the ammo that works best for accuracy and try to tune for that.

I actively seek out 1911s that people are getting rid of because they jam. They rarely need more than a couple springs or a touch of polishing somewhere. The most severe work I've had to do was replace an ejector or an extractor.

My everyday carry gun is a P12-45 that was a "jammomatic." When I first took it to the range I couldn't get three rounds out of it without a jam. New mag springs, cleaning the mags and a new recoil spring and it is flawless.

Considering the hit you'll take to sell it and buy a Kimber (they aren't batting 1,000 in reliability these days) or a Colt, I'd try the cheap, simple fixes first.

Another thing is to try a variety of ammo. You may find it is 100 percent accurate and reliable with a change of fodder.

I'd start with some ammo that shoots to mil-specs for the 1911 - 230 gr, RN at 830 FPS.

 

[geronimo509]

My para has been Flawless since day one. I also own a kimber and colt that has been flawless from day one. There is always something negative to say about EVERY manufacturer. I've read that you should never buy kimbers, springfields... you name it.

Good luck in your next purchase and remember that most 1911's need a break in. When you put your first 73 rounds through a kimber, let me know how good it did. Then another 177, and let me know. With the next one hundred, you will probably have one feed issue still. Please comeback and complain that kimbers suck after that.

But hey, Maybe you did get a lemon.

LOOP, I like your thinking!

 

[alistaire]

How can you lube a pistol without field stripping it?

You should have stripped and cleaned it BEFORE the first range trip.

Is the 'return spring plug' the plug that retains the big spring under the barrel? If broken , return to PARA for repair. (Secret tip: always field strip guns before buying them.)

 

[schmeky]

You probably have an extractor tuning issue (i.e. to tight). Very easy to correct, has been discussed many times. Do a forum search and you'll get tons of info.

 

[thercman]

How can you lube a pistol without field stripping it?

You should have stripped and cleaned it BEFORE the first range trip.

Is the 'return spring plug' the plug that retains the big spring under the barrel? If broken , return to PARA for repair. (Secret tip: always field strip guns before buying them.)

I just sprayed lube on the exposed parts of the slide etc. That stuff gets everywhere.

Your right though I should have taken it apart before I shot it. I wish someone told me that before. (new guy here) I just figured a new gun should be good to go. *Ass-U-Me(d)* I wouldn't take apart my brand new car's engine before I drove it make sure the metal parts inside weren't broken.

Yes that piece is just under the barrel. It has a couple ears on it to keep it aligned. That is what was broken. So when the slide returned it wouldn't line up straight.

Good luck in your next purchase and remember that most 1911's need a break in. When you put your first 73 rounds through a kimber, let me know how good it did. Then another 177, and let me know. With the next one hundred, you will probably have one feed issue still. Please comeback and complain that kimbers suck after that.

I think you missed the part about the gun coming from the factory with a broken part...... I already know that 1911's need a break in. But even a new guy like my self knew that somehting wasn't right. Especially when one round jammed the gun to the point were the slide wouldn't move in either direction.

Why do I feel as though I am being slammed instead helped at this point..... Gee.....


Loop,

Thanks for the advice.... I will look at the items you mentioned for sure. I am going to put another 100-150 rounds through it tonight and see how it goes.

 

[CWL]

I think you missed the part about the gun coming from the factory with a broken part......

Surprise! Finished guns get sent to their proof house and (depending on manufacturer) get anywhere from 2-200 bullets shot thru it. If it shoots, it gets packaged and shipped out for sale.

New guns don't get cleaned after firing and they certainly do not get disassembled after firing. You need a full-blown handmade custom for that kind of personal attention.

Don't feel too bad, this could've happened with almost any brand of gun. This is why it is your responsibility to disassemble and inspect (and clean) all new guns. You don't know what may be going-on with the internals.

 

[thercman]

Thanks.... Currently I am waiting for my 5" Fusion to be completed. Even though it is a custom build I will still field strip it before I put any rounds through it. I will also be sure to do that with any other gun I purchase in the future.... Lesson learned for sure.

 

[mljdeckard]

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't carry it in summer. I've been carrying full-size 1911 autos year-round, in 100+ degree heat for many years.

I heard bad things about Paras, but I mostly ignored them as internet chatter. If you search any product online most of what you get will be complaints. Then a friend of mine bought one. They had squeezed it so tight in a vise that the guide rod plug was seized, and we couldn't get it loose to strip it. To do it is one thing. To do it on a special-order custom gun, and let it slip through QC and ship it anyway is another. At least the fixed it and covered shipping, but you don't want mistakes like that on ANY gun, let alone one that cost $1000+.

 

[thercman]

Absolutely! The Para was $899. For that kind of cash you would think it would be inspected prior to shipment. With my custom 1911 @ $1800 it better be! Hopefully tonight things will be smoother with the gun. When I did some reading around on net the I actually didn't find any bad things about Para. So I decided to give them a try. Originally I was going to buy a Kimber but figured I spent enough cash on the custom and wanted something a little lighter.... Like I said I hope things will go better tonight at the range. I was just surpised at the accuracy of the 3" Kimber since it is a rental.... That thing takes some abuse and probably doesn't get cleaned very often....

 

[thercman]

So last night I put another 150 rounds through the gun and it seemed to work well. I did have one feed issue. My groups were low and to the left which I guess is a trigger pull thing. I will work on that tonight.

Oh, one of the range employees shot my gun and put all the rounds he shot through it right on center at 20'. He said the gun is a shooter. So it's up to me now......

 

[ge0624me]

So last night I put another 150 rounds through the gun and it seemed to work well. I did have one feed issue. My groups were low and to the left which I guess is a trigger pull thing. I will work on that tonight.

Oh, one of the range employees shot my gun and put all the rounds he shot through it right on center at 20'. He said the gun is a shooter. So it's up to me now......

nobody has mentioned this, but most semi pistols, especially a 1911 with a 3'' barrel, i dont care what brand it is, if your shooting it the slightest bit limp wristed, you might realize and are not always be doing this, thruout your shooting session, but when you first start shooting,alot of your attention is being focused on how good your grouping and such, but keep a very firm grip on that pistol because that will can cause some issues with the slide coming back to rest at full speed,like it needs to for proper round chambering, ...not that this is the issue or the main issue ,but just watch out for this...1911's rock....

 

[MICHAEL T]

My Para compact wasn't relieable at all I sent in for warrenty but still wasn't carry relieable I traded for a Colt Defender . Been relieable from first shot I stay with Colts in a compact

 

[loop]

Congrats on the quality range time. Glad to hear it went well.

ge0624me, is right. I used to have a personal trainer. He shot a perfect score at Camp Perry when he was 72 and, at that age, he would challenge people to make him bend his right wrist. When he locked that wrist it was like a vise. He's gone now, but whenever I find myself having a poor day shooting I remember "Lock your wrist!"

Works every time.

Don't let negativity get to you. We all started somewhere and made plenty of our own mistakes. That's how you learn.

Do break down every new auto and clean it then lube it. Even an expensive custom gun is going to have minute traces of metal shavings and dust inside. Another cleaning can't hurt a thing.

Too bad about that broken guide rod, but things slip through with any product. I just bought a top-of-the-line electric drill that did nothing. I had to send it back. That's why I save receipts.

Just remember, with Paras you have to keep the mags clean as well as the gun.

Let us know how that Fusion works out. I've been thinking of getting a longslide kit from them for a build. Every Fusion I've seen has been beautiful, but I not quite over the top. Then I have to convince the wife I need another $2,000 1911...

geronimo509, thanks for the flowers <G>