" Sling Shotting " an auto's slide ?

[Navy87Guy]

Somewhere on the Brian Enos forum (I can't find it right now) there are some very graphic pictures that show why the overhand method is not the right way. I'd highly recommend against every putting your hand over the ejection port...if a round goes off (which it did during a match, as these pictures show) you really don't want your hand to take the blast. Besides, the risk of getting your hand caught in the action is much greater from an overhand position.

I can tell you that the instructors down at Blackwater who teach the Navy's non-compliant boarding course will drop you for 20 pushups if they catch you using the slide stop lever (that's what it's called in the Glock armorer's manual) to release the slide. They certainly feel sling-shotting is the correct way to go.

Jim

 

[BevrFevr]

i do both but...

only at the range.

For anything real life SLINGSHOT.

That most closely emulates the pistols natural operation. Recoil spring fully compressed. Release closes with no hand friction.

With the over hand there is plenty of chance to provide drag to slow that sile down just enought sor things to not snug up nice and tight.

I would rather see someone use the slidestop than seem them use an over hand or a bad sling shot method.

-bevr

 

[waterhouse]

why the overhand method is not the right way. I'd highly recommend against every putting your hand over the ejection port

Uh, I would say that putting your hand over the ejection port is not the right way to overhand, but, done correctly, there is nothing wrong with using an overhand approach.

http://corneredcat.com/RunGun/rack.aspx

About a third of the way down the page is a decent picture of sling-shotting and overhand. Just below the picture of the correct way is a nice picture of the incorrect way with the ejection port covered.

 

[huntershooter]

To the "using slide stop is a fine motor skill and will fail when TSHTF...." school of thought; what is a trigger press, a gross motor function? I don't think so.

 

[Arch]

Many police forces are taught to slingshot. This is because cops, not always being shooting enthusiasts, can pick up pretty much any autoloader and slingshot it to reload, without having to know what those funny levers on the side do.

The second reason (and I don't want any flame for this), is that some believe that the extra fraction of a millimeter that the side travels back when you slingshot it might be enough to stop a FTF. I personally think that's utter rubbish.

Cheers,
arch

 

[default]

The second reason (and I don't want any flame for this), is that some believe that the extra fraction of a millimeter that the side travels back when you slingshot it might be enough to stop a FTF. I personally think that's utter rubbish.

No flames, but I'm pretty sure I've heard believable accounts of people having pistols fail to go fully into battery when using the lever, but would go into battery when sling-shotted or over-handed. Now, that would indicate a dirty or malfunctioning gun, but it does seem like the maximum spring compression (perhaps more important than the extra slide travel?) that is achieved by using the latter 2 methods certainly cant hurt anything.

 

[jdmb03]

I reach my hand over the top on the rear of the slide and let it fly.

 

[Walkalong]

The second reason (and I don't want any flame for this), is that some believe that the extra fraction of a millimeter that the side travels back when you slingshot it might be enough to stop a FTF. I personally think that's utter rubbish.

Slingshoting works better, thats all. The same way that, when using the slide stop to release the slide, a 5" 1911 will feed more dependably than a 4" or 3" 1911, even though some shorter guns feed fine like that.

The slide needs enough energy and momentum to push down the disconnector, push a round out of the clip and then chamber it. Many 8 round clips hold that top round much tighter than the original GI 7 round clip.

On the 3" guns the slide can barely start moving (when released by the slide stop) when it encounters the disconnector (it's first resistance) and then try to continue on to strip a round from the clip and chamber it. This is one reason many don't feel comfortable with reliability of shorter guns period. The 5" guns slide can get some momentum going before it encounters its first real resistence.

 

[scurtis_34471]

I do both. It depends on the gun. Its a known fact that using the slide release lever on a Walther P22 will eventually wear the zink slide and cause issues, so I always slingshot that gun. The slide release is in the perfect spot on my Bersa and I have muscle memory to the point of doing it without even thinking about it. I do it both ways on my XD, because I'm trying to figure out which works better or me with that gun.

 

[ZeSpectre]

To the "using slide stop is a fine motor skill and will fail when TSHTF...." school of thought; what is a trigger press, a gross motor function? I don't think so.

Not "will" fail, "may" fail so we were trained to avoid even taking the chance. As for trigger press being gross motor.. YUP, under severe stress conditions some people revert all the way down to the point that it can be (a gross motor skill). This is part of the reason you hear about gunfights with some insane number of shots fired and only a few hits or no hits at all.

As for fumbling the slide release under critical stress it's not hearsay, I've seen it and I've done it and that's why I stick to my training (slingshot style). But hey, it's a relatively free country so do your own thing.

 

[STAGE 2]

This is an endless debate so there will be no final answer. What I think is safe to say is that using the slide stop/release to let the slide go into battery will not cause any noticable wear. Examples of slide stops breaking have been due to their MIM construction or poor metal in general. I'd be very impressed if someone could bust a nice barstock slidestop by simply using it as a release.

As far as its original purpose, I think its also safe to say that with the 1911 the slide release was intended as a release and not just a slide stop. Browning could have easily made the stop slim or even hidden it as well. However he made it protrude from the side as well as add checkering on the top. Taking this inconjunction with the fact that that the 1911 was designed to be used on horseback (which was still the major part of the cavalry at the time) and I think its beyond dispute that on the 1911 alone, the slide release is in fact a release.

As far as which to use, the best advise I can give is to practice both. Don't let yourself develop any muscle memory with respect to any particular slide release and don't let yourself be reliant on the slide release in general.

 

[Walkalong]

As far as its original purpose, I think its also safe to say that with the 1911 the slide release was intended as a release and not just a slide stop. Browning could have easily made the stop slim or even hidden it as well.

He also made it a 5" gun.

 

[MrDig]

I'm uncertain as to the "Tactical" advantage of "Slingshotting", it sure looks Tacticool though. But I wouldn't ridicule doing it any more than I have by saying that.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Every practical pistol instructor I've trained with has said to ignore the little gizmo on the side and grasp the slide and push through (sling shot) because the fine motor control needed to operate the little gizmo on the side will probably fail you when your life is on the line.

I've used that same logic in preference to a slide rack rather than the preciseness of flicking a safety release while in the carry mode...
Just a thought, I do not want to side-track an excellent thread...Thanks..

 

[default]

He also made it a gun with no slide-mounted controls.

Today I shot a Beretta 92 with the ambidextrous safety/decocker on the rear of the slide, and a SIG-SAUER P220 with frame-mounted controls. With some of the things said in this thread in mind, I tried to do all 3 methods of chambering a round with both pistols today. I found over-handing the Beretta to be somewhat difficult, and even sling-shotting was not really optimum, due to the protruding controls on both sides of the slide. With the SIG, all 3 methods worked fine.

Also, after looking at Pax's excellent website, I realized that experienced, fundamentally-sound me wasn't really sling-shotting at all, but rather doing the "weak pinch", which habit I tried to break immediately. Now I need to decide whether the proper sling-shot or over-hand will be my main method of slide release.

Great thread, thanks to everyone for interesting and illuminating contributions.

 

[Navy87Guy]

I found over-handing the Beretta to be somewhat difficult, and even sling-shotting was not really optimum, due to the protruding controls on both sides of the slide.

I have a couple of Berettas, and I've always considered the controls an advantage when it comes to slingshotting. Just grab the slide by those big, ol' "ears" and go to town.

Different strokes....

Jim

 

[default]

I have a couple of Berettas, and I've always considered the controls an advantage when it comes to slingshotting. Just grab the slide by those big, ol' "ears" and go to town.

I can see that. I learned to shoot on pistols with frame-mounted controls, so it just seems a little foreign to me, as I rarely shoot pistols that feature them other than my rarely-fired Makarov and the occasional rental Beretta 92 (great pistols, by the way - soft-shooting, great grip and trigger, and although in the final analysis guns shouldn't be judged on their looks, it's hard to imagine a more elegant and stylish 9mm service pistol.)

 

[pax]

Also, after looking at Pax's excellent website, I realized that experienced, fundamentally-sound me wasn't really sling-shotting at all, but rather doing the "weak pinch", which habit I tried to break immediately.

default ~

Thanks for the kind words about the site.

Remember those instructions were written for people who didn't already know how to run a slide. As long as the pinch is working for you, it's not a true safety concern like covering the ejection port is. You've obviously got the hand strength to do it, or you wouldn't be doing it that way, so you may not need to change anything.

However, two caveats:

1) If your hand ever slips right off the slide (when sweaty for instance), or if you sometimes have to grab it a second time to get a better purchase, you may want to change the habit to something more secure because, well, you don't want that happening under stress when you're in a hurry, and

2) If you need to teach someone else how to rack the slide, esp. someone without your hand strength, you'll have more success if you show them a stronger grasp.

With those two thoughts in mind, whether or not to change your habitual slide-grip is up to you; you may not need to do so as long as it's always secure enough for you.

Hope that helps.

pax

 

[metallic]

I'm a lefty, so it's hard for me to actually manipulate the slide release. I just slingshot the slide.

 

[default]

Thanks, pax. I suppose I probably do have the hand strength and experience to make the "weak pinch" work safely, at least in range conditions, but it was never my primary method. I'm just now considering whether to exchange the over-hand method for the properly-done sling-shot, as the latter seems to offer very positive control of the slide and traction on the cocking serrations and is less awkward physically.

 

[possum]

i always use the slide release, some trainning courses teach different things but i have always done good with using the slide release so that is what i have stuck with.

 

[sargenv]

In my case, if I go to slide lock with a Glock or Sig 229, if you seat the mag with any kind of force, the gun will tend to load itself for you negating any reason for the slingshot or mag release. When shooting an auto, I tend to use the mag release since I don't need to get my non gun hand anywhere near the gun after seating the magazine, and I may be in a hurry to do so to get off a shot quicker. I reserve tap-rack for when there is a jam or other malfunction.

Vince