I need a supply of 70 rounds of slugs for an up coming tactical shotgun class. There is alot of conflicting information on slugs out there. Though I gather all slugs hit with authority. It seems range is a big difference between them. The original RWS Brenneke still seem to be on the top of the heap. Thoguh they are rather expensive to shoot in any quanity so I bought some Brenneke M.P.'s which I have not found much feed back on as well as some Brenneke USA KO slugs. Neither of these seem to be the "100 yard" variety slugs according to the manufactorers. Though I'm really only worried about 65 yards and under. Are these loads good enough or do any of you exprience shotgunners have loads that might suit me better? Thanks
slugs for tactical shotgun class
- Thread starter Bud Light
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I am not an experienced shotgunner, and this post will be of no help to you, so take it for what it is worth.
A year to two ago, I took a defensive shotgun class at Gunsite: the rangemaster was Louis Awerbuck. I don't think I would be going out on a limb to say that he is considered by many to be a shotgun guru.
Louis told us that unlike rifles or handguns, shotguns are kind of a mystery. Each one seems to be unique. The way it shoots a given shell might be totally different than another gun that appears to be identical. Your gun might shoot shell "X" perfectly while another gun with a consecutive serial number to yours won't shoot that same shell worth a crap.
I got a good taste of what he was talking about when we were shooting slugs.
All but two guys in the class were shooting 870s.
A majority of the people in the class purchased their ammo from Gunsite as a package that goes with the course.
I bought that ammo package, but also brought along my own ammo: the slugs and buckshot were Winchester.
The slugs that came with the class were reduced recoil Remingtons.
Without going into too much detail, some guns had their sights adjusted all the way up and the slugs shot low. Some had their sights adjusted all the way down and the slugs shot high. Some guns would group, some wouldn't.................
Louis's take as well as mine is that the ONLY way to know if the slugs you bought will work out for you is to get out and shoot them. You can't even guess if they will work. It doesn't matter if someone posts that these shells were good or bad in their gun, the opinions and advise from this forum will mean nothing. YOU, HAVE to shoot them in YOUR GUN or you will know nothing about them.
I would not just buy some slugs for this class if you are serious about your shotgun. You need to decide upon a slug that shoots good in your gun and stick with that slug. Maybe even buy a case of them or whatever. Obviously you are serious enough about defensive shotgunning to seek training. Training is fantastic and you will learn a lot. But, the training is not going to substitue for a little work on your own with your shotgun. You will enjoy the class more if you are prepared with equipment that runs good. Buy as many different slugs as you can and try them in your gun. When you find one that gives you what you want: accuracy, recoil, bullet weight, velocity etc. Buy in bulk.
A year to two ago, I took a defensive shotgun class at Gunsite: the rangemaster was Louis Awerbuck. I don't think I would be going out on a limb to say that he is considered by many to be a shotgun guru.
Louis told us that unlike rifles or handguns, shotguns are kind of a mystery. Each one seems to be unique. The way it shoots a given shell might be totally different than another gun that appears to be identical. Your gun might shoot shell "X" perfectly while another gun with a consecutive serial number to yours won't shoot that same shell worth a crap.
I got a good taste of what he was talking about when we were shooting slugs.
All but two guys in the class were shooting 870s.
A majority of the people in the class purchased their ammo from Gunsite as a package that goes with the course.
I bought that ammo package, but also brought along my own ammo: the slugs and buckshot were Winchester.
The slugs that came with the class were reduced recoil Remingtons.
Without going into too much detail, some guns had their sights adjusted all the way up and the slugs shot low. Some had their sights adjusted all the way down and the slugs shot high. Some guns would group, some wouldn't.................
Louis's take as well as mine is that the ONLY way to know if the slugs you bought will work out for you is to get out and shoot them. You can't even guess if they will work. It doesn't matter if someone posts that these shells were good or bad in their gun, the opinions and advise from this forum will mean nothing. YOU, HAVE to shoot them in YOUR GUN or you will know nothing about them.
I would not just buy some slugs for this class if you are serious about your shotgun. You need to decide upon a slug that shoots good in your gun and stick with that slug. Maybe even buy a case of them or whatever. Obviously you are serious enough about defensive shotgunning to seek training. Training is fantastic and you will learn a lot. But, the training is not going to substitue for a little work on your own with your shotgun. You will enjoy the class more if you are prepared with equipment that runs good. Buy as many different slugs as you can and try them in your gun. When you find one that gives you what you want: accuracy, recoil, bullet weight, velocity etc. Buy in bulk.
i like the remington 1oz reduced recoil slugs. i sighted it in at 50yds. i'd like to try and see where the slugs hit at 100yds but my range won't allow slug shooting beyond 50yd...but realistically i probably wouldn't be effective at 100yds with slugs anyways. i read somewhere that the remington 1oz reduced recoil will drop 6-8 inches at 100yds.
I was thinking of zeroing at 25 yards which would be about 10 yards further than the point I would transition to slugs from buckshot anyway. So I can pick up with slugs where the buckshot becomes ineffective. I too am curious to the slugs I select 100yrd performance but would seriously doubt that I would ever use them at such a distance.
Gordon
Member
Rem reduced recoil slugs are VERY accurate in most guns. They hit with more than adequate autority to 100 meters . For some reason they fly just about as flat as full power ones. They may require a different sight setting though because they recoil 1/3 less!
When I shoot high round count courses thats what me and my friends shoot- good stuff! Plenty enough power to SMASH a human , but less penetration. Only time I'd use Brennekes or other full power slugs would be hunting game animals
When I shoot high round count courses thats what me and my friends shoot- good stuff! Plenty enough power to SMASH a human , but less penetration. Only time I'd use Brennekes or other full power slugs would be hunting game animals
I zeroed my gun with Winchester 1 oz slugs. I am embarresed to say that I don't remember what range we zeroed at. I want to say 50 yards, but I would only be guessing.
Anyway, after shooting a lot of slugs, I decided to try the Remington Reduced Recoil slug. IN MY GUN, the RRR slug shot like three FEET high with the rear sight adjusted all the way down. The accuracy of them was immaterial, they wern't practical for me to use.
This is a good example of what I am talking about: Winchester 1 oz slugs shot good, sights adjusted right away with no grief. I switched the type of slug and the point of impact changed by so much that it would cause a clean miss on man or beast. At the same time, there were people who didn't have enough rear sight elevation to bring RRR slugs onto the paper because theirs were shooting LOW while other people were driving tacks with them. This was all out of Remington 870s on the same day by fairly experienced shooters and some of the best instructors in the world. Louis was not the least bit surprised by this and basically said, I told you so.
Anyway, after shooting a lot of slugs, I decided to try the Remington Reduced Recoil slug. IN MY GUN, the RRR slug shot like three FEET high with the rear sight adjusted all the way down. The accuracy of them was immaterial, they wern't practical for me to use.
This is a good example of what I am talking about: Winchester 1 oz slugs shot good, sights adjusted right away with no grief. I switched the type of slug and the point of impact changed by so much that it would cause a clean miss on man or beast. At the same time, there were people who didn't have enough rear sight elevation to bring RRR slugs onto the paper because theirs were shooting LOW while other people were driving tacks with them. This was all out of Remington 870s on the same day by fairly experienced shooters and some of the best instructors in the world. Louis was not the least bit surprised by this and basically said, I told you so.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Most definitely use reduced recoil slugs for a class where you are shooting 70 rounds of slugs. REMs are fine. I find Federals are fine as well.
The only Brennekes I have shot are the KO rounds and while I think they are great to shoot, they are not pleasant to shoot at all. I can usually keep a 12" pattern at 100 yards with them. They might be more accurate, but with just a single bead sight, I am not. These rounds are not forgiving on the shoulder.
The only Brennekes I have shot are the KO rounds and while I think they are great to shoot, they are not pleasant to shoot at all. I can usually keep a 12" pattern at 100 yards with them. They might be more accurate, but with just a single bead sight, I am not. These rounds are not forgiving on the shoulder.
Fumbler
Member
I agree with what has been said; every shotgun is different.
I had a Daly Maxi-mag Field pump and it shot some makes of slugs 8" low at 15 yards and others 4" high and 4" right.
My current shotgun, a Mossberg 500A that I shortened the barrel on and put Mossberg GRS on shot a foot to the right and half a foot high at 25 yards (with sights adjusted to POA for buckshot) with one choke tube and shot on center but 8" high with another tube. After shortening the barrel and its cylinder bore it shot to the same POA as buckshot with most slugs.
I love the Brenneke KO slugs. Consistent hits on a 12" steel plate at 100 yards is not difficult with the GRS.
All other slugs I have tried are not as consistent. I would get good groups for a few shots then have huge flyers.
I had a Daly Maxi-mag Field pump and it shot some makes of slugs 8" low at 15 yards and others 4" high and 4" right.
My current shotgun, a Mossberg 500A that I shortened the barrel on and put Mossberg GRS on shot a foot to the right and half a foot high at 25 yards (with sights adjusted to POA for buckshot) with one choke tube and shot on center but 8" high with another tube. After shortening the barrel and its cylinder bore it shot to the same POA as buckshot with most slugs.
I love the Brenneke KO slugs. Consistent hits on a 12" steel plate at 100 yards is not difficult with the GRS.
All other slugs I have tried are not as consistent. I would get good groups for a few shots then have huge flyers.
For a Tactical shotgun class why not buy a case of Federal Tactical low recoil slugs LE127 RS. If that's too much, I think you can buy a couple sleeves (half a case-125 rds.) Ammoman is one site where you can order and have it at your door in a week. Buy some low recoil Tac. buckshot while you're at it. You'll probably need that, too.
The Tactical slugs are Foster type that will be accurate enough at 65 yds. I shoot man sized targets at 100 with my Ghost Ring sights.
Brenneke slugs have deep penetration--they hardly expand at all. Carry those in bear country. Tactical slugs are softer, and expand well--real well. Both are accurate enough for your course. Whether or not you have rifle sights will be more of a factor with re: to range than the slug you use.
The Tactical slugs are Foster type that will be accurate enough at 65 yds. I shoot man sized targets at 100 with my Ghost Ring sights.
Brenneke slugs have deep penetration--they hardly expand at all. Carry those in bear country. Tactical slugs are softer, and expand well--real well. Both are accurate enough for your course. Whether or not you have rifle sights will be more of a factor with re: to range than the slug you use.
Smoke
Member
The only time I took a defensive shotgun class all the range works was within 25 yrds. With the exception of maybe a dozen rounds shot at steel targets about 85yrds off....mainly to show shooters how much a slug drops.
Most time was spent on reloading, transitions, shooting on the move, etc.
All this was close up.
So my recommendation is to find out what the course is going to cover, shoot the cheap stuff for close up work, figure out what your gun likes
for the far off stuff.
Smoke
Most time was spent on reloading, transitions, shooting on the move, etc.
All this was close up.
So my recommendation is to find out what the course is going to cover, shoot the cheap stuff for close up work, figure out what your gun likes
for the far off stuff.
Smoke
go to a store and buy say 10 rounds of each of the taticool reduced slugs and go out to the range and shoot them. See what ones you like and go back and buy your supply of them.
I shoot Winchester Super-X's but I couldn't imagine shooting more then 10 a day. I would venture to guess my arm would fall off.
I shoot Winchester Super-X's but I couldn't imagine shooting more then 10 a day. I would venture to guess my arm would fall off.
BillL223
Member
One consideration not mentioned is if you'e shooting an auto or pump. Some autos will not be reliable with low recoil slugs. My Benelli is only about 95%. I actually handload slugs. I run Lyman 525 gr slugs @ about 1250 fps. This is 100% reliable and knocks steel down with authority.
Fumbler
Member
BudLight, what kind of sighting device do you have?
Sighting device is the single biggest factor of slug shooting accuracy. You won't hit anything at 75 yards with a bead unless you're at rest on a bench.
Sighting device is the single biggest factor of slug shooting accuracy. You won't hit anything at 75 yards with a bead unless you're at rest on a bench.
BigRedBowtie
Member
To add some credence to the diff'rent guns, diff'rent slugs theory:
My deer gun is a Mossy 835, for which I have a ported, rifled slug barrel with a cantilevered scope mount. I tried Brennekes, winchesters, federals and ALL of the lightfields (2-3/4, 3", 3-1/2") The 2-3/4 Lightfield Commander IDS outperformed everything else I shot through it at 50 yards, so I moved it to 100 and got it zeroed. If I do my part, it'll keep it well inside 6" at 100 without too much trouble. I shot 10 rounds through it a couple weeks ago, and it hurt- alot... Boy, I'm sure glad it didn't like those 3-1/2" slugs- those were MONSTERS!!
My deer gun is a Mossy 835, for which I have a ported, rifled slug barrel with a cantilevered scope mount. I tried Brennekes, winchesters, federals and ALL of the lightfields (2-3/4, 3", 3-1/2") The 2-3/4 Lightfield Commander IDS outperformed everything else I shot through it at 50 yards, so I moved it to 100 and got it zeroed. If I do my part, it'll keep it well inside 6" at 100 without too much trouble. I shot 10 rounds through it a couple weeks ago, and it hurt- alot... Boy, I'm sure glad it didn't like those 3-1/2" slugs- those were MONSTERS!!
The Benelli's used to work great with the Federal Tactical rounds, but in recent years, the Benelli's have been a little more fussy. Don't know if they're rougher today or what. Some have said if you fire 50-100 rounds of 3" magnums through them, the Tacticals will work just fine afterwards. You might try it.
No doubt, one of the first things you will learn in this class will be the correct way to fire a shotgun. I would seriously doubt that you will be shooting any slugs off a bench for groups.
I have now taken two defensive shotgun classes: one five day class at Gunsite, and one four day class at Frontsight. I fired hundreds of slugs in each class. There were people of all shapes and sizes in both classes. I took the Gunsite class with a friend that is female and weighs I would guess right around 100 pounds. The key to shooting any firearm is correct technique. If you are being hurt by your shotgun, you are not using correct technique.If you use incorrect technique in this class, you will injure yourself the first day and the rest of the class will be painful and a waste of your time and money. Pay attention to the correct way to fire a shotgun and forget everything else. Recoil is not an issue with correct technique (within reason).
I have now taken two defensive shotgun classes: one five day class at Gunsite, and one four day class at Frontsight. I fired hundreds of slugs in each class. There were people of all shapes and sizes in both classes. I took the Gunsite class with a friend that is female and weighs I would guess right around 100 pounds. The key to shooting any firearm is correct technique. If you are being hurt by your shotgun, you are not using correct technique.If you use incorrect technique in this class, you will injure yourself the first day and the rest of the class will be painful and a waste of your time and money. Pay attention to the correct way to fire a shotgun and forget everything else. Recoil is not an issue with correct technique (within reason).
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