I have been loading for a semi-auto and a lever action in .308 cal and using a RCBS small base die for these. I recently purchased a bolt actin in .308. I have shot over 100 rounds through it using the reloads from the small base die. I saw that RCBS does not recommend the small base die for a bolt action. What kind of problems can I expect using the small base die in the bolt action. I hate to have to separate my .308 rounds based on the action.
Small base Die
- Thread starter tcb1709
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Small base dies are rarely needed for a bolt action rifle and usually not needed for semi-auto, slide action or lever action. In my opinion, the actual need or not for small base dies depends.
But, it won't hurt anything to continue using your small base die for the bolt action rifle.
Brass life may be a smidge shorter and you may have to trim the cases more frequently. But, you may not notice that either.
But, it won't hurt anything to continue using your small base die for the bolt action rifle.
Brass life may be a smidge shorter and you may have to trim the cases more frequently. But, you may not notice that either.
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Certaindeaf
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I used to neck size for a BLR in .243.. way accurate and stuff but don't do that.
I can see the value of a SBD given certain platforms.
I can see the value of a SBD given certain platforms.
USSR
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Zero problems. If that's what you've got, use it.
Don
Certaindeaf
member
They all say that.
It's only .001 diff. You must have a BLR in .308. You can try partial sizing with the die, lube like F/L but don't push the neck back any. You may have to separate the brass for the individual rifle. I would probably shoot them in the SA a couple times and then delegate to the lever and bolt guns.
GW Staar
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I get the feeling some don't believe what I posted, so here's the source from the Dillon forum:
In another post they said "small-based dies are mostly a marketing decision." I'd say Dillon's marketing idea is only offer small based dies to lessen the heart burn caused by reloaders whose reloads don't always chamber well.....good insurance....little effect on case longevity. RCBS offers a choice, regular or small-base, presumabably to offer less sizing for longer case life for loaders who can do it right.
IMO the difference (as previously described in another post) is so slight, why not go the Dillon route. I buy small-based dies for my military gas guns for insurance, ever since I bought an AR10 clone with a tight enough chamber that even factory Federals didn't chamber well...even tho all other brands did. Doesn't hurt a thing, and keeps Murphy far away.
In another post they said "small-based dies are mostly a marketing decision." I'd say Dillon's marketing idea is only offer small based dies to lessen the heart burn caused by reloaders whose reloads don't always chamber well.....good insurance....little effect on case longevity. RCBS offers a choice, regular or small-base, presumabably to offer less sizing for longer case life for loaders who can do it right.
IMO the difference (as previously described in another post) is so slight, why not go the Dillon route. I buy small-based dies for my military gas guns for insurance, ever since I bought an AR10 clone with a tight enough chamber that even factory Federals didn't chamber well...even tho all other brands did. Doesn't hurt a thing, and keeps Murphy far away.
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I use only standard sizers and have no problems. For autos I size to fit a case gauge such as Wilson makes. Some folks like small base sizers for everything, and some folks only buy one if a certain gun causes problems with a standard sizer.
GW Staar
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While I more than appreciate your experience and wisdom, and I too use plenty of standard sizers, and proper use of a Wilson case gauge is indeed wise, it isn't a cure all.
The Federal factory ammo I spoke of goes into my Wilson .308 gauge perfectly, but it will not cycle past the first chambering in my Remington R25. Both Remington and Winchester factory ammo chamber and cycle perfectly, but Federal Core Lokt does NOT. (BTW cheap Russian ammo won't cycle either.)
With a chamber that sensitive, I bought an RCBS small base sizer. Would the reg. base sizer work....don't know. But buying the small base (first) means I for sure don't have to buy two. Is the chamber a mistake? Possible, but it works with nearly all factory ammo, and all my reloads so far, and the gun is super accurate and reliable with good ammo besides Federal, so I'm not going to worry about it.
I have five 5.56/223 Remington ARs of various flavors and two full length sizer dies. Depending upon the rifle a round is fired in and the die it is resized in it may or may not chamber in a different rifle. The case will chamber in the rifle it was fired in.
But they always fit my Dillon case gauge.
Cases resized in a small base die always fit all of the rifles.
In my opinion, I am experiencing rifles and dies at opposite ends of the tolerances.
I pretty much resize with a small base die for 223 Remington these days.
I have never had any problems chambering factory new rounds.
If I have any problems with my other semi-auto rifles, I will probably change to small base, or as Dillon says "minimum tolerance" dies.
But they always fit my Dillon case gauge.
Cases resized in a small base die always fit all of the rifles.
In my opinion, I am experiencing rifles and dies at opposite ends of the tolerances.
I pretty much resize with a small base die for 223 Remington these days.
I have never had any problems chambering factory new rounds.
If I have any problems with my other semi-auto rifles, I will probably change to small base, or as Dillon says "minimum tolerance" dies.
gamestalker
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If a standard FL die is correctly adjusted, you should have trouble free loads for AL, pump, lever, and bolt actions of course. I'm sure there are some circumstances in which a small base die might be necessary, but it's probably not a common exception.
The weaker camming action of non-bolt guns is well known.
The lower available force puts a premium on ammunition that is no larger than allowed.
Not all FL dies, no matter how they are adjusted, can reduce the entire case to at or below specified dimensions.
I have a few small base dies, but only use them when I have tried a regular FL die and found it inadequate.
Many bolt gunners have reloading practices that are best described as "sloppy". Neck sizing, partial neck sizing, as long as these guys can beat the bolt handle down with a block of wood, they are happy with their ammunition.
Their ammunition would cause a semi auto or a lever action to puke.
There is an old saw about small base sizing "overworking" brass, well it has not happened to me. I think the primary reason you hear this is because these guys did not use a case gage to set up their sizing die. On older small base dies, you can push the shoulder way the heck back.
Regardless of die you use, you should set the thing up with a case gage. These Wilson gages are cheap and easy to use. Just size the case between the Go and No Go marks.
For myself, I small base size in every caliber that I can purchase small base dies. I want my ammunition to be as close to factory dimensions because I can use that ammunition in everything.
I shoot 30-06 and 308 in match Garands/M1a's and bolt rifles. It all functions fine.
I agree, it is pushing the shoulder back too far that wears brass out faster, not sizing the body a hair more, but until I have a need for a small base die, I will continue to use my standard dies. I do not have any tight match chambered rifles, except for my Bench gun, and that is a whole nother thing making 6PPC brass for it using .220 Russian.
GW Staar
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I only have one more itty bitty point....and this is for guys (not me because I'm always running near empty) who load for a rainy day (or worse). If you load a stash to store (or even bury) you might want to use small based dies.
Yes, your regular dies may work your action of what you shoot just now...just peachy. But I don't know many shooters who keep the same gun for life (unless you bury that too). It's one thing to take your tailored bullets for your personal target whacker out to the range....and even waste a clip or two making more noise than hits, but its another thing to have to bet your life on ammo that may or may not feed well in a gun you barely know, in not so pristine condition, in a situation you never dreamed of being in.
Ok, admittedly it was an itty bitty point that I ran off at the mouth about.
Yes, your regular dies may work your action of what you shoot just now...just peachy. But I don't know many shooters who keep the same gun for life (unless you bury that too). It's one thing to take your tailored bullets for your personal target whacker out to the range....and even waste a clip or two making more noise than hits, but its another thing to have to bet your life on ammo that may or may not feed well in a gun you barely know, in not so pristine condition, in a situation you never dreamed of being in.
Ok, admittedly it was an itty bitty point that I ran off at the mouth about.
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