SMG Ammo Help

[FuzzyBunny]

I have a supply of Samson 9mm ammo that is for SMG only.
When I got the ammo I was told SMG ONLY!
It was special order from mfg IMI.
I ask the guy if it was +p+ or the like and he said, no SMG it is a pressure thing.

Whats the deal with this stuff? Is it just too high pressure for anything else?

Sold the UZI and kept the ammo. What can I shoot it in? Any handguns at all?

Before you ask, no, it is not for sale. But I do need info.


Box says
9mm Luger
(parabellun)
124 gr. Full Metal Jacket

 

[Warty]

It probably has a really hard primer, that is my guess. Most SMG ammo has really hard primers to prevent slam fires and out of battery explosions. I would say you shopuld simply try it in your gun and see if it works. I have a ton of TOK ammo that is supposedly SMG ammo only. So far, other than needing to hit a few of them more than once to get them to go bang, I have been using them in my CZ52 without any problems.

I may be all wet too. YMMV.

I would be certain to ONLY use the ammo in guns that are rated for +P ammo though, just to be on the safe side. I wouldn't go sticking it into an old Star or Astra or any other older firearm. Does this help at all?

 

[akulahawk]

I'm not an SMG owner by any means, but SMG ammo may have harder primers and they may be loaded hotter than even +P+. It may or may not do damage to your pistol. IIRC, the SEALS in Coronado had a couple of M9 slide failures, possibly due to or partially due to the use of SMG ammo in the pistol at the time. (Mid-80's.) That failure led to a slight redesign of the M9 which retains the slide in the event of a separation.

 

[Hypnogator]

the SEALS in Coronado had a couple of M9 slide failures, possibly due to or partially due to the use of SMG ammo in the pistol at the time. (Mid-80's.)

FYI, that rumor was started by Beretta immediately after the incident. It isn't true. The guns that failed were firing standard M882 ball ammo.

My source is the M-9 Project Manager at Rock Island Arsenal. I was the Army CID representative on the XM-11 Compact Pistol project at the time.

 

[Kindrox]

Your ammo will have hard primers and will be loaded hot. As there is no actual definition of +p+ you could call it that but the SMG ammo could be loaded much much hotter than commercial +p+ ammo.

It would be unwise to shoot it out of anything less than a gun designed to shoot it. You are probably better off selling it to a sub gun owner and buying something more suitable.

 

[dmftoy1]

+1 on selling it to a sub gun owner.

That being said, in the early 90's I had a case of "SMG Only" Egyptian ammo that I had bought to fire through a buddies sten. With the Sten gone I shot it all through the only 9mm I owned, a Ruger P94. It ate it all up and didn't give me a problem. (of course the Ruger was built like a Sherman tank) It definately had more kick than standard 9mm. FWIW.

 

[Eric F]

I had some "smg" only 45 ammo seemed a bit hot but worked fine in my 1911

 

[FuzzyBunny]

I guess I could sell it.

Or buy another SMG or even a Ruger P94!

 

[MMCSRET]

Try it in a Ruger Blackhawk convertible.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

If it says SMG only then there is a good reason for it. It's an unknown load. Do you really want to risk a $800 gun and your eyes to burn up a box of ammo?

 

[Dan Forrester]

This ammo was made for open bolt SMGs. Open bolt SMGs operate by slam firing until all the ammo is gone or you take your finger off the trigger. Since all they do is slam fire the designs are only slightly more complicated to make than a H&R single shot shotgun. These guns have heavy (usually cast) bolts with a permanent firing pin machined directly into the bolt face. Open bolt SMGs include the MAC, UZI, M3, STEN and a bunch of others. Don’t confuse SMGs with the semi auto POS copies of the MAC or UZI which fire from a closed bolt. They have absolutely nothing in common with the original open bolt SMGs except exterior looks.

I would say sell it to a collector. It should fetch you some good money.

Dan

 

[AK103K]

Is it IMI "black tipped"? If so, its "hot", and I would not shoot it in your pistols. I shot some of it in my MP5 years ago, and it was the only ammo to actually start to fire form to the flutes in the chamber. The cases came out with slight ridges, not the normal scratches.

Here's what happens when you use SMG ammo in guns not rated for it....

SWD M11/9mm (SMG) after about 2000 rounds of Spanish SMG ammo



This was the ammo, in case you run into it....



dmftoy1,
Did that Egyptian look like this...?



If so, how was your rust problem? The stuff in the pic above was made for the Egyptian "Port Said" copy of the Swedish M45's. Came 36 to a box, and was pretty hot, and very corrosive.

 

[FuzzyBunny]

There is nothing on the box that says SMG at all. This was word of mouth before the owner died. He said NEVER FIRE THESE IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE UZI.

When I ask why he said he bought these special for the UZI and they are hot as hell. He had many many 9mm pistols and carbines but kept these boxes in the corner of the gun room with a tag on them that said "uzi only" in his handwriting. He was a lifelong reloader and collector so its not like I won't take his word.

No there is no black tip. Just the normal blue and white Samson box that says 9mm. Brand new boxes 20 to a case (not reloads)

 

[AK103K]

If you have the boxes with the lot number on them, contact Samson/IMI and ask. Might as well get it from the horses mouth, instead of the other end.

 

[Just Jim]

I will take them if you want to sell at a good price.

jj

 

[dmftoy1]

AK103K - Yup, that's box. I don't know if yours are bleached or not but my boxes were a light/medium blue color. Labels look identical though.

Never had a problem with any corrosion but:

1. The P94 was stainless
2. I clean the bejesus out of everything I own. (never did use windex or anything though)

Regards,
Dave

 

[Warty]

corrosive is corrosive, there is no ammo that is "more" corrosive than another, period.

This stuff doesn't spread acid all up and down you bore and throughout the gun, it spreads hydrophilic salts.
These salts draw the water out of the air and help to cause rapid rusting of ferrous metals.

I get such a kick out of folks being afraid of corrosive ammo and saying that this stuff is SUPER CORROSIVE or the like.
Send it all to me and I'll shoot it...

Just clean the gun after you shoot it.
It isn't instantaneous in its ability to rust metal or that sort of thing, you have time to drive home and clean your guns, heck you could probably even eat first.

Like I said, the Bulgarian Tokarev ammo that folks are buying here of late is all SMG only stuff but I doubt they are shooting it out of SMGs, open-bolt or otherwise.

 

[AK103K]

That very Egyptian caused bright orange surface rust on a couple of guns within 24 hours. We started early, shot all day, and got home late and didnt get to clean right away like we usually do, and didnt get to them until about dinner the next day.

I've shot a lot of corrosive over the years and never had rust until we used that stuff. If they are all the same, then this stuff is different.

 

[MisterPX]

If it is the IMI Uzi SMG ammo, then it is at higher pressures. MOst of the sellers made sure to add the SMG only disclaimer. This stuff was also selling for much less than other 9mm ammo, due to it's restrictive use. Heck, southern ammo may still have it at about $100/K.

 

[Warty]

Whatever you say AK103K. I can only go with what you say.

I only know that chemistry is chemistry and if it did that this day, then perhaps it was extra humid?

Corrosive is corrosive, period.

 

[AK103K]

I was what it was, what else can I say. It was a fine, bright orange rust. Never had it before, or since. It was in the summer and it does get humid here, but none of the other corrosive I've used ever reacted that fast.

 

[Old Guy]

IMI and IVI

Glocks will shoot Sub Gun Only 9mm, they are designed to shoot it.

Black tip IMI is not as hot as IVI (Canadian Mil Spec 9mm) I shot 30,000 Rd's over a ten year period, Glock 17s (IVI) primers really hard, tenderizing the primer with a hand seating devise from RCBS? all fired, super hot, super accurate, 1250 fps from a G17.

Recoil on par with +P+ 127g Ranger WW, and as accurate, if carrying for business, and with two spare magazines on belt, the last one, furthest away, should be Mil. Spec. hard ball, this combo will defeat more barricade material, if so desired.