Smith & Wesson M&P no longer in US Army pistol trials

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It is doubtful the trial gets cancelled. They need a new service pistol and by the amount of non-M9 pistols you see in the military, they are clearly not going to keep buying those. Its 2016 and they want something that is polymer. I fully expect it to be the Glock 17 but there are other possibilities out there, notably the Sig 320. The 40S&W is too much to hope for, they will be sticking with 9mm I am sure.

I'm sure everyone has seen the article where General Milley said to Congress that if it was up to him they would give him 17m and send him to Cabelas to do a bulk buy.

https://www.armytimes.com/story/mil...w-pistol-send-me-cabelas-17-million/82132450/
 
I'm sure everyone has seen the article where General Milley said to Congress that if it was up to him they would give him 17m and send him to Cabelas to do a bulk buy.
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That would seem to be a waste of taxpayer dollars, they just opened a Cabelas here and I was frankly unimpressed with the prices.
 
jeff-10 said:
I'm sure everyone has seen the article where General Milley said to Congress that if it was up to him they would give him 17m and send him to Cabelas to do a bulk buy.
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Having personally met the CSA Gen Milley, he is a very brash man, as with most people who are 11 or 18 series. Since becoming a general officer he has brought up the excessive red tape in regards to military logistics many times already. He doesn't like bean counters and the Cabelas's remark to Congress is a perfect example.

I really hope Glock doesn't get selected. Glocks are popular with police because the company practically gives them away and I would not like the military to pick them up for the same reason. Too bad Murphy's law of combat states "Your weapon is made by the lowest bigger" and that may be Glock in this case.

As far as accuracy 4" at 50 yards is very doable with a M9. At least with a relatively new firearm. The problem with our current arsenal of M9s is you will have some pistols so out of spec you can throw it more accurately. The first M9 I was issued was so out of spec I either had to swap it out or choose not to deploy with one. The swap out I received was accurate enough to take the trip with me.
 
I would guess the majority of service type handguns out there could average 4" or better at 50 with good ammo. The M&P is probably one of the few that can't.
 
which is kind of a bummer. but i never shoot my M&P at anything harder than an 8" plate at 30 yards. (well, occasionally a full size ipsc at 100 yards)
 
Weapon procurement programs $$$$$$. Its the equivalent of reinventing the wheel. Adopt the Glock G17 and be done with it. That would be way to easy and cost effective.
 
RX-79G- the accuracy requirement gave me a double take. 4 inches at 50 meters (90% of the time?)- is it me, or is that really optimistic for a service pistol shooting ball ammo?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the MHS competitors supplying their own ammo (i.e. the competition is not limited to 9mm NATO ball)?

Regardless, the whole M9 replacement program is a waste of taxpayer dollars that will cost servicemen and women their lives (since this money is not being spent on more important things). This may sound alarmist, but it's true.
 
I would hope they would get to use something more consistent than M882 ball for testing.
 
Hangingrock said:
Weapon procurement programs $$$$$$. Its the equivalent of reinventing the wheel. Adopt the Glock G17 and be done with it. That would be way to easy and cost effective.
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The entire MHS program is expected to cost roughly the same as the F-35 that burned to the ground at Mountain Home this week.

Perspective is important.
 
The Glock 19 pistols used by MARSOC and other special operations units are Gen 3. I'm sure that is what Glock submitted for the MHS.
 
I'm with the others, 3" seems pretty tough with ball ammo.
 
I think commentators are misunderstanding some of these requirements. People see the word modular and assume it means a fully separate fire control unit. If that was really the case then the Sig 320 is the only qualified entry and every other pistol would have been immediately rejected. The solicitation defines modular as "adjustability for ergonomics (by means of grip inserts, grip panels, front or back straps, different triggers, or other means)"
 
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Any M&P is a 3-4" gun at 25 yards. No way it could do it at 50 yards. H&K and Sig are the only ones I'd think have a chance, even those would be iffy without carefully measured match ammo.
 
MAKster said:
The solicitation defines modular as "adjustability for ergonomics (by means of grip inserts, grip panels, front or back straps, different triggers, or other means)"
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...and the Gen 3 doesn't have any of those. It is also not ambidextrous.

If that was really the case then the Sig 320 is the only qualified entry
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I believe that was the intent
 
In 1917 in tests done by the Army, the stock Colt 1911 was producing 50 yard groups of 4.068" (or a mean radius of 1.356" with vertical deviation of .910") from a rest. The average of several groups shot. This with a 230 gr. FMJ bullet at 802 fps from the muzzle.

At 25 yards, groups of 2.565" with 45acp (mean radius .855).

tipoc
 
I'm kind of surprised FNH didn't submit the FNS line. It seems to check off all the requirements.

The SIG makes good sense, but a Glock might make a better case for a proven track record of decades without a major overall mechanical overhaul.

The SIG would allow a single "pistol" to go from a full size nearly 5" service pistol all the way down to a subcompact for niche/officer use.

But if Glock is willing to modify their design to meet requirements like they did for the FBI and come in with an attractive low ball price on the first order or arms, the known reliability and durability might make more sense.

I think on paper the 320 should win. It's a wonderful design, but a good part of my brain thinks a Glock 17 would make more sense based on both known reliability and from a cost standpoint.

I'm a big fan of the 92 series, but after handling a Gen 4 Glock 19, a poly pistol can do so much more with less weight and less cost.
 
We can probably count on one hand what firearms in the last century were a big step up. As far as I count in American service, it was the 1911, the M2 .50 Cal, and the M16.
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I agree with everything you've said but how can the M1 Garand not be on this short list? It was a major advance in individual firepower at the time.
 
Narwhal
Any M&P is a 3-4" gun at 25 yards.
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I can't speak to other examples of the S&W MP series but my MP9 and MP9c are the equal of my Glock Gen 3 G17 and G19 in regards to accuracy at 25yds.
 
S&W is a publically traded company so has to make a public announcement. Privately held companies do not have to make public announcements.

Here's a bit more from American Rifleman...

Well, it's out there now. As the U.S. Army’s labyrinth-like search for a new service pistol continues, there is one less famous name in the running. It was just announced on Friday that Smith & Wesson and its partner General Dynamics have been dropped, cut, benched, from the U.S. Army Modular Handgun System (MHS) trial designed to select the XM17—a process that has thoroughly confused many in the firearm industry and been plagued by bad press.
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https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...sson-latest-casualty-in-us-army-pistol-trial/

Beretta, which has supplied the U.S. M9 pistol since the 1980s to the tune of about 600,000 guns, tried to submit its updated M9A3 as part of a Product Improvement Plan (PIP) under its existing contract, but Army bureaucrats denied Beretta that opportunity. The U.S. M9 is now being made at Beretta’s brand new Gallatin, Tenn., facility after moving manufacturing of its handguns and shotguns out of the far-less-politically-friendly state of Maryland. Beretta reported has all its lines up and running, the tooling having been moved from Accokeek, and it is continuing to fulfill existing M9 contracts with guns made in Gallatin. Final approval and delivery of Gallatin-made guns is expected this fall.

The good news is that the M9A3 has been a hit with consumers and is selling very, very well.
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The other makers believed to still be in contention for the contract and the Army are not talking, and neither is the Army—yet. SIG Sauer and Glock are rumored to be leading the pack, and some have posited that the Army’s criteria were written around the SIG Sauer P320 pistol. Some of the same people said the same thing about the recent FBI contract, too, but a 9 mm Glock won that one. Awkward. The other known contenders are Beretta with its new APX pistol and FN America with a version of its FNS striker-fired gun.
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An earlier piece on the process of the selection.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...let-it-snow-army-delays-xm17-pistol-deadline/

tipoc
 
Wait, so FNH did submit an FNS and not the Five Seven? That's makes a lot more sense. The FNS comes in 3" different barrel lengths, 2 different calibers, 2 different sizes, and the full size comes loaded for bear (9mm) 17+1 rounds. Despite the penetration of the 5.7, I don't see what it brings to the table in a service duty handgun.

Mechanically (and aesthetically), I prefer the FNS to my Glock. As far parts and an armorer go, the Glock probably bests it.
 
With the price of drones and smart bombs I dont know why we don't issue everyone a Les Bauer 45 with pearl handles.


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