smokeless to black powder

[fishblade2]

I want to load a black powder load for my sawed off shotgun. This shotgun is easy to take apart and doesn't have as many areas that black powder could get stuck in and corrode. Is there a load difference (amount I should put in) when using a synthetic black powder substitute vs. real black powder.

Which black powder substitute has no sulfer in it again?

 

[rule303]

Any of the black powder substitutes are designed to be loaded to an equal volume of black. With shotshells, you will need to get some fiber wads, plastic shot columns aren't going to cut it. Also paper hulls work much better, you can use plastic, but they will get holes burned through them in one or two firings. I have used 777 with good results. Load em' up and enjoy the smoke!

 

[fishblade2]

where is a good place I can buy the fiber wads from and more importantly the paper wads? How do I know that they are paper wads? what do I check for?

 

[eastbank]

i load plastic cases and use plastic wads and have a ball and kill rabbits at 30yds with no trouble. i use 209 primers,hand dip FF black powder,rem plastic wads and 1-1/8 #6 shot. i use a 650 mec to load and crimp the shells. i prime the cases first and then hand dip the charge of FF black powder,then insert the wad and and drop the shot in the 650 mec then crimp. i use the cases only once and then throw them away. clean up is with hot water and then carberator cleaner to take any plastic residue in the barrels out. the shotgun is a old vulcan arms co shotgun. no harm has been done to this gun after many of these loads. eastbank.

 

[fishblade2]

well for both of you guys that have given me separate options what amount of black powder should I place in the shell and how much shot?

 

[jaguarxk120]

Generally black powder and shot are loaded in equal volumes. So when you measure the powder charge use the same amount of shot.

 

[eastbank]

i use between 55-60grs FF and 1-1/8 0f #6 shot. most of the rabbits i have shot are with in 25yds,but i have killed them a little over 30yds. they are just as dead as if i used smokeless low brass 1-1/8 #6,s. eastbank.

 

[fishblade2]

I tried by volume of measuring 55-60 grains of black power out with a plastic wad and then my plastic wad wouldn't fit. I also measured out 1 1/8 oz shot and tried to pour the same amount of powder as shot with the plastic wad but it over flowed the shot shell. So neither method has work with the plastic wad. Any ideas?

ALso with fiber wads which of these wads from this web link would I use to place in a shot shell normally? http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/171/1

Lastly how do I tell the difference between a paper hull and plastic hull? is the whole shell plastic or just the bottom of the hull?

 

[Sam1911]

Lastly how do I tell the difference between a paper hull and plastic hull? is the whole shell plastic or just the bottom of the hull?

The brass (usually) shell head is still the same. The body of the shell which holds the powder, wad, and shot is made of heavy card board. That's the way shells used to all be made before the age of plastic, though many shooters these days have never seen or even heard of paper hull shells.

 

[eastbank]

here is a picture of the shells i load. i insert the wad and shot with the mec 650 and crimp also,if you have trouble, fff may help as you can lower the powder charge and still keep the volicity up. eastbank.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

I like using paper highbrass shells made for skeet shooting in 12 ga. They are easy to crimp and easy to find if you make friends with a skeet shooter. If not, plastic is ok.

If you haver a single or double barrel shotgun, here is some fun if you want to load some blanks like we use for our wild west show. (Not telling you how, just saying what we do.)

Load 50 grains of BP or Pyrodex, then pour cream of wheat directly on top of the powder, up to the crimping line. Place an envelope sealing dot (bigger than the opening) on top and use a dowel to seat it on top of the cream of wheat. Then crimp. The Envelope dot seals that little hole up when you crimp it and won't let the cereal come out.

The reason I use the cream of wheat is for a filler because I use an old Lee hand loader and it keeps the crimper from going through, and it makes even more white "smoke". The envelope dot disenigrates before it leaves the barrel.

This load passes our 30 foot mandatory splatter test. Makes a fun big bang too.

 

[Pete D.]

BP shot shells

First....that old saw about equal volumes is a reference to how muzzleloading shotguns are traditionally loaded and doesn't apply to BP shot shells.
BP shot shells really work nicely with traditional wad columns comprised of a nitro/overpower card, fiber wads - the number and thickness of which vary depending on the powder and shot load - and an overshot card. The hull is then normally sealed with a roll crimp. Some experimentation with the column is normal in order to have the appropriate length for a proper roll crimp.
Yes, you can - as noted - use plastic components. You will, however, run into the problems that you have experienced.
BP powder charges in shot shells are normally referenced in drams - modern shot shells frequently refer to their "dram equivalent", usually 2 3/4 to 3 drams for 12 gauge and 2 1/2 drams for 20 gauge. The equivalence is velocity.
A dram is equal to 27 grains of BP. A normal Trap load would be 2 3/4 drams (about 68 grains FFg) and 1 1/8 oz shot. A hunting load might be three drams of FFg (about 81 grains).
The problem with loading equal volumes is that not all powder brands have the same density and equal volumes, say of Goex and Swiss, will not contain equal weights of powder.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Acording to my Bridgeport powder and shot measure (No.21) 1 1/8 oz. of shot is equal to 2 3/4 drams of powder. So the volume of shot and the volume of powder is the same. And one dram is 27.34 grains by weight.

 

[Pete D.]

Weight

Last night, I was loading a few BP shot shells. As a test, I filled my shot measure, set to 1 1/8ths oz, with FFg Goex and then weighed it. It weighed almost exactly 81 grains - three drams of powder. This has been my experience in the past.
After weighing the Goex, I took the same measure and did the same check again, this time using some old DuPont FFg (The can was labelled $1.75 for the pound). That powder weighed 70.6 grains (about 2 3/4 drams). Same volume, same granulation and more than ten grains difference in weight. Goex was 14% heavier.
Pete

 

[jaguarxk120]

The old DuPont powder was a better powder than the Geox.

Maybe I should dig out a can of Curtis & Harvey in Fg and check weight to volume.

 

[fishblade2]

I found an interesting way to load a modern shotgun with black powder. This guy on youtube using a cut shell all the way down to the brass to act as a primer and breechplug. Then he loads the blackpowder and shot. My question though with this video (which I will post below for those who want to watch it) he uses just some cloth randomly cut and places that in for over the powder and shot wads. I was wondering if I used the proper black powder wads if they would fit comfortable down in the barrel with this method and work at giving me a good shot pattern for skeet?

Also with this method I was wondering most importantly if it was a safe thing to do.

Lastly if I am placing a cushion wad over the over the shot wad should it be lubed? I origninally ordered dry cushion wads because I was planning on using reloaded shotshells with black powder but once I figured out I would have to dispose of the shell after shooting it no more than twice I didn't like that method so I found this one.

here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES59LtA7XE8&feature=related

 

[riki]

I use 85 grains of black powder for my duck hunting. The good thing with BP is that you can not overload

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I use 85 grains of black powder for my duck hunting. The good thing with BP is that you can not overload

I bet if you filled the entire barrel and plugged it at the end with a wad, I think that would be an overload