Snow calls for still MORE debt
- Thread starter Sindawe
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stevelyn
Member
rick_reno said:
As long as Bush can start unprovoked and unwarranted imperial wars for oil, I don't care what the debt is.
DesertEagle613
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Just a little perspective:
Go find Bush's proposed budget for 2006 (you can get to it I think from treas.gov) and check out the historical charts for debt relative to GDP (Historical Tables document, table 1.3). Right now we're on track to get a 70% debt in the next few years. Bad? Yes. But at the same time, we have recovered from worse. After WWII, our debt relative to GDP was nearly 120%; yet over the next few decades, that was slowly reduced down to 32%.
We need to stop spending like drunken sailors, or else the debt will never start going down. But there is still hope. We just need to stop moaning and start tightening our belts; because make no mistake, whether taxes go up or payouts go down, people right now have money they won't have, once we get serious.
Go find Bush's proposed budget for 2006 (you can get to it I think from treas.gov) and check out the historical charts for debt relative to GDP (Historical Tables document, table 1.3). Right now we're on track to get a 70% debt in the next few years. Bad? Yes. But at the same time, we have recovered from worse. After WWII, our debt relative to GDP was nearly 120%; yet over the next few decades, that was slowly reduced down to 32%.
We need to stop spending like drunken sailors, or else the debt will never start going down. But there is still hope. We just need to stop moaning and start tightening our belts; because make no mistake, whether taxes go up or payouts go down, people right now have money they won't have, once we get serious.
xd9fan
Member
and GWB is a conservative 
veto something dubba
veto something dubba
Glad some people have caught on.redneck2 said:
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
A key word I'venot seen brought up here is "Entitlements". Programs for social services are set in place, and the structure of the law is that they be funded in perpetuity.
DeLay is correct about paring discretionary funding (other than pork). Some parts of the federal budget MUST be funded; no discretion exists.
When compared to either the total federal budget or to the GDP, the direct spending in Iraq is chump change. (Some of the costs would exist even if we were not involved there, so I don't count them as "direct".) As a percentage of the federal budget, military spending is a lower percentage of the total than at many times in the past.
As an overall group, we the voters have said we want this program, we want that program, all provided by taxing "somebody else". The chickens are coming home to roost, whether at the city, state or federal level. Since a lot of politicians aren't around all that long, they don't suffer from the average fella's "taxitis". They make their loot from political contacts and live quite well, thank you.
The desperation of all levels of government is seen in the rise in fees, or the addition of new fees. These mis-named taxes show in national and state park access, boat launches, and such things a car tags--among numerous examples.
And hunting and fishing license fees, to bring this thread into our particular interest. I sorta wonder how long before there's a federal fee added to other licensing for hunting/fishing on public lands. All levels of wildlife management are desperate for funds.
Art
DeLay is correct about paring discretionary funding (other than pork). Some parts of the federal budget MUST be funded; no discretion exists.
When compared to either the total federal budget or to the GDP, the direct spending in Iraq is chump change. (Some of the costs would exist even if we were not involved there, so I don't count them as "direct".) As a percentage of the federal budget, military spending is a lower percentage of the total than at many times in the past.
As an overall group, we the voters have said we want this program, we want that program, all provided by taxing "somebody else". The chickens are coming home to roost, whether at the city, state or federal level. Since a lot of politicians aren't around all that long, they don't suffer from the average fella's "taxitis". They make their loot from political contacts and live quite well, thank you.
The desperation of all levels of government is seen in the rise in fees, or the addition of new fees. These mis-named taxes show in national and state park access, boat launches, and such things a car tags--among numerous examples.
And hunting and fishing license fees, to bring this thread into our particular interest. I sorta wonder how long before there's a federal fee added to other licensing for hunting/fishing on public lands. All levels of wildlife management are desperate for funds.
Art
unless of course, the "lawmakers" change the law.
but yeah.
i'm torn though, on the public lands stuff. on one hand, theoretically, FED gov shouldn't be in the business of buying and squatting on land. on the other, it would be nice to have a managed preservation effort. but that's another thread, i guess.
glockamolee
Member
At this point in the game, and it IS a game; it is impossible to reduce the deficit or not raise the debt limit, without the Ponzi Scheme/House of Cards collapsing.
All we are doing is buying (every pun intended) time until the EU or China is ready to take over.
It was "too late" around the end of the 80's.
All we are doing is buying (every pun intended) time until the EU or China is ready to take over.
It was "too late" around the end of the 80's.
1 old 0311
member
If you, or I write a bad check we go to jail. Congress just rolls it over to the next generation.
Kevin
Kevin
Then there's the missing trillions; according to Donald Rumsfeld.
Yes, I believe it Mr. Rumsfeld. And yes, in any large budget there is going to be an expected fractional percentage of error and omission. But 2.6 trillion? How much was stolen, by whom, and used for what I wonder.
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Yes, I believe it Mr. Rumsfeld. And yes, in any large budget there is going to be an expected fractional percentage of error and omission. But 2.6 trillion? How much was stolen, by whom, and used for what I wonder.
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Waitone
Member
If we insist on solid accounting practice out of the Pentagon, let's go further and put the same requirements on . . .oh, say, Health and Human Services, or Interior, or State, or bATFE, or. . . . .congress. Yea, that's the ticket. Let's impliment business caliber accounting practice in congress. Then when the bugs are worked out stick it to the rest of the bureaucracy including DoD.
Selective depravity benefits no one.
Selective depravity benefits no one.
xd9fan
Member
taliv said:
You mean "lawvoters"
I seriously doubt these jokers know what the hell they are voting on half the time. The Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Well, that tax collection agency known as the BATFE needs eliminating altogether for several reasons; among them the enormous waste of public money.Waitone said:If we insist on solid accounting practice out of the Pentagon, let's go further and put the same requirements on . . .oh, say, Health and Human Services, or Interior, or State, or bATFE, or. . . . .congress. Yea, that's the ticket. Let's impliment business caliber accounting practice in congress. Then when the bugs are worked out stick it to the rest of the bureaucracy including DoD.
Selective depravity benefits no one.
And the Federal government needs drastically paring down overall and reduced to it's Constitutional mandates. That includes axing our money going overseas in "aid" etc.
That done, business standard accounting should not be a problem. When we have no national debt and have consolidated our own house assets, then we can consider giving our nextdoor neighbors a hand now and then with their home improvements and unruly children.
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Kodiaz
member
There is a country called Argentina. It had a bunch of debt. It's currency collapsed (it became worthless). That is our future unless a miracle happens. China isn't going to need us forever they have a billion people to drive their economy. I was at work and one secretary was telling another about U.S govt bonds (I bit my tongue so I wouldn't laugh). I kindly informed the women that our currency (the paper in your wallet) is worthless and that we are being held afloat by China. Purchasing bonds was a waste of time. If you want to sit here and argue with me fine just explain to me why an once have gold has gone up 150$ in price over the last 2 years. Nevermind I'll tell you why, the value of our money is going down. When I was leaving the office the parts guy told ne "What happened in Argentina occured because of corruption". My response to this was "What do you call the Halliburton KBR etc etc no bid contracts". If you tell me to adjust my tin foil hat fine go I'll adjust it while you go back to sleep. If this is your first time hearing about this and your concerned. By a lot of ammo. Over on Frugal Squirrel's forums there is a guy in Argentina who has written a very long, very informative and very depressing collection of posts about his life after the currency collapsed.
Specifically how he saves money to buy ammo for his pistol and rifle. How on his commute one day he had to push open a roadblock made by criminals and lay down suppressive fire with his pistol. Because there are no jobs and a good way to make a buck is kidnapping. Imagine having to pay 100$ for a box of ammo imagine 30$ for a gallon of gas. That's where the skyrocketing debt is taking us. Oh well Rant off. To all who think I have to adjust the tinfoil. Back to to bed for you.
Specifically how he saves money to buy ammo for his pistol and rifle. How on his commute one day he had to push open a roadblock made by criminals and lay down suppressive fire with his pistol. Because there are no jobs and a good way to make a buck is kidnapping. Imagine having to pay 100$ for a box of ammo imagine 30$ for a gallon of gas. That's where the skyrocketing debt is taking us. Oh well Rant off. To all who think I have to adjust the tinfoil. Back to to bed for you.
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