So apparently I suck at reloading already. Problems decapping military crimped brass

[1KPerDay]

I finally got my reloading "bench" set up in my closet (pretty cool, actually), got my LCT set up, got my M2 brass cleaned, lubed and ready to size/deprime.

I install and adjust the Lee sizing die as instructed, and cross my fingers as I try my first case ever.

Case looks like it's been through the wringer, has splotchy rusty/crud marks, and the primer is bulging out but not removed.

I bought the dies second-hand and they looked to be in good condition, but I guess there's some residual crud up near the neck.

The decapping pin has slid up out of the collet/clamp/bolt at the top of the die.

So perhpas it's not such a great setup after all. But I think, hey, it's a blessing in disguise, as now I have a reason to fully disassemble the die and give it a good cleaning. I take it apart, clean it well using my garand chamber brush and some other brass brushes, wipe it out, reassemble, tightening the decapping pin as tight as I can get it with the top flush with the bolt, reinstall into the press, wipe off the brass, and try again. Here's the result:





:banghead:

 

[Mals9]

After you do a good cleaning slide the decapping pin down until about 3/16" of the pin protrudes below the die. This works well on my Greek surplus M2.

Mals

 

[1KPerDay]

I did. Didn't work. Pin slips upward, doesn't deprime. as seen in pics.

 

[Mals9]

Not sure what to tell you there. Maybe some dirt or oil in the clamp or on the barrel of the pin. I tightened the top nut quite tight and have had no issues. Mine is a new set though.

Mals

 

[sniper5]

Uh, can't read the headstamp clearly. Could that possibly be Berdan primed brass? Can you shine a light down the case neck and see if there are 2 small priming holes or 1? Even with a crimp primers should not be THAT hard to pop out. As an alternative, try hammering a small screwdriver or punch through one of the primers from the outside and pry it out to see how the priming holes are set. If you have Berdan primed surplus you, for all practical purposes, won't be able to reload it.

 

[justashooter in pa]

machine gun brass. ring crimp. needs a single stage press with standard dies to do it right. will damage your turret press if you do lots of it. throw it away or buy a cheap C-press or O-press at the next yard sale/gunshow you go to and use RCBS/Redding etc dies that can handle the stress of first go round. then be sure to ream primer pockets after first de-capping.

your lee turret press dies use a decapper/expander that is friction fit to collapse if excess pressure. this to protect your aluminum turret fitting from being damaged. you can tighten the fricton fit with a wrench. loosen nut on top, slide rod down flush with top of nut, and tighten nut with wrench.

i decap the occasional crimped in 9mm range brass with same press you have, but thats a different animal and circumstance.

this is why i do not recommend a progressive or turret as first press for anyone. should start with a RS2 or a rockchucker. i have 5 presses on the bench, including 1 just like yours, but use it for hi production handgun ammo only.

 

[jcwit]

I see green around the priming cap.

I ran into something similar to this with some military cases a year ago, forgot the caliber, but either the primer is also sealed into the case or corroded to the case.

I was not able to deprime many of the cases I had, in some of the cases the bottom of the primer cup came off from the sides and left the side in the case. I ended up tossing them all into the brass scrap pail.

Never had any trouble with machine gun brass, tho.

 

[Fmjblack]

My guess would be that either the brass is Berdan primed, the flash hole is really off center, or the nut/bolt thing that holds the decapping pin is not tightened down enough. I have decapped thousands of pieces of military brass without issue. Is that the only piece of brass you've tried? You mentioned that the brass is rusty... I would avoid loading rusty brass as the brass has likely lost some strength and rough cases cause extraction issues.

 

[1KPerDay]

No, the brass is clean and lubed with Hornady one-shot. The headstamp on that one is TW 53, and it is ring crimped as noted above. Boxer primed. I just tried decapping a few using my ancient hand method:

and it worked. I will not try to decap ring-crimped brass using this die again... do you think the 3-stake HXP will work? It seemed to come out a bit easier when I did a few by hand. I re-tightened the decap nut/collar very tight and tried again, and it decapped it.

However, now I have this problem to deal with. :banghead:




So apparently it's not lubed enough... or my die is tighter than spec, or my expander ball thing is larger than spec... or...

I sprayed this brass once with one-shot once just after I tumbled it a few weeks ago, and again tonight with a (it seemed to me) generous spray including inside the necks.

Lee says to loosen the top collet and use a drift punch to drive the decapping pin down and knock out the stuck case. No dice. I've pounded hard enough to bend my brass drift punch, and then even harder with a steel one... it won't budge. I have it soaking in PB blaster now. If I could get the decapping pin OUT I could try a larger diameter rod/punch.

Or I suppose I could pony up the dough for the stuck brass removal tool that midway sells... drill it, thread it... etc.

Truth be told it would be cheaper and less trouble to just buy a new die.

I gotta tell you, boys... I'm not having much fun yet.

I was planning to start "easy" with some .45 ACP or .40 reloading, but I figured I'd size-deprime a few dozen .30-06 while I was sitting around tonight. Easy-peasy, right?

 

[1KPerDay]

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=706762

The unique design even works on stuck cases which have the decapping rod and expander ball stuck in the die.

Hmmm... wonder how it works?

 

[jcwit]

We here go ONE SHOT again. Folks, go back to Unique or Imperial Sizing Wax, or Mink Oil. How many times have we heard of this on this board this week alone.

 

[Seedtick]

First thing, rusty? or just don't look good. Brass doesn't rust but steel does. ??

Next, drill and tap the head of that stuck piece of brass and pull it out. And use the tap that you have a bolt to fit. Somebody I know once went to all the trouble to drill and tap a stuck one for a reloading buddy only to find out they didn't have a bolt to fit it between them. I'll be kind and not mention any names.

Now, I don't think you will need another die unless you scrap that one getting it un-stuck. Take a piece of kinda coarse, ~ 80-120 grit, sandpaper and rough up the shank of that decapping pin. Twist it back and forth to make scratches around it where the collet grips it. Now tighten the peewaddlin out of that collet and see if it will hold better. If not, try it a little more. Try scratching up the inside of the collet, around the inside of it.

Now go get you some Imperial Sizing Wax or STP or some of the many other recommended case lubes you've seen mentioned here weekly.

I just reread this and it might come off as harsh or like I'm talking down to you but that is totally opposite of the tone intended. Actually, I have giggled to myself the whole time I was typing. (not laughing at you but hopefully with you)


You might as well laugh too, cause most of us old timers are. IMHO

HTH

Seedtick



ETA:

Hmmm... wonder how it works?

You gotta whack it! But be careful.

 

[Jeff H]

Instructions from Lee on removing a stuck case.

To remove the case yourself, loosen but do not remove the decapper clamp with a 3/4 and 1/2 wrench. Then pound on the end of the decapper rod with a 3/16 drift punch, and use a heavy hammer for best results. You can leave the die in the press for this operation.

To keep this problem from happening again, use LEE Resizing Lubricant. It works where others stick to cases. Using some LEE Resizing Lubricant, spread a small amount around the case below the shoulder so that there is a thin film. With the small amount of film that remains on your finger, "scrape" some into the inside of the case neck.

If you are not able to remove the stuck case, we will remove it for you. We charge $4.00 to remove a stuck case. Please return the die to the factory with an explanation. Our address is:
Lee Precision Inc,
4275 Hwy. U,
Hartford, WI 53027

 

[medalguy]

1K, pm inbound to you.

 

[Smaug]

You started a bit too cheap, it seems like. Dirty, used dies. (they should at least start clean)

Used brass from God knows where. Might even be steel, which is not considered reloadable.

For cryin out loud, at least start with good quality once fired commercial factory brass.

Any way, best of luck. Don't give up.

It is worth spending a few bucks up front to do it right.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I got about 1,000 pcs of primer-crimped brass a year ago and had to rig up a hole in my workbench (which is solid as a rock) and make up a long drift punch to manually hammer out each primer. It took a good several (up to five) whacks with a 20 oz hammer to get the primers out, and many of them the punch ended up going right through the primer. I would say I threw away about 50 cases due to the primer not coming out and another 50 because stains on the brass looked like corrosion pits.

When I was all said and done with prepping those cases, I said "Never AGAIN!" -- and that was even brass that someone GAVE me!

To me, it is not worth the time and aggravation trying to get all those primers out, then having to re-chamfer the primer holes to accept a new primer!

As it was, in the end, about 50 or so rounds had the primer set so hard that the priming tool basically crushed the primer some. Those rounds I will shoot separately and not even bother picking up the brass.

 

[Fmjblack]

One shot is great for lubing moving parts on the press, it is not so great as a case lube. I have a bottle of frankford arsenal case lube that I've been using for years and have never had a problem with stuck cases. I would suggest just putting the bottlenecked cartridges to the side for now and work on .45 and .40 as you originally planned so you can have some fun reloading while you get accustomed to it. The brass prep involved in bottlenecked cartridges is almost universally every reloaders least favorite part of reloading.

 

[1KPerDay]

We here go ONE SHOT again. Folks, go back to Unique or Imperial Sizing Wax, or Mink Oil. How many times have we heard of this on this board this week alone.

I obviously haven't heard about the horrors or I obviously wouldn't have tried using it.

 

[poco loco]

you really have to crank down on that collet and it will work, I use the Lyman case lube and it's great, a tich messy but works.....

I also got the Lee universal decapping die basically just for military crimped brass as it cuts the effort in half when not trying to size the case at the same time...the die is about 11 bucks and worth it.....

when you do get the case beaten out you'll probably need a new decapper/expander rod as it will have bent then it pulls the neck off center when you size.... ....mine in my 7.65 argy dies did when I screwed up and got one stuck....Lee replaced for free, no questions.....but the drill tap and pull method works so much easier and the RCBS puller kit is very cheap also.....

 

[poco loco]

The brass prep involved in bottlenecked cartridges is almost universally every reloaders least favorite part of reloading.

I just started with .223 and man what a pita finally found the drill attachment for the trimmer and that helped but I'm just not used to these tiny cases......I like 06 or 308 but these little guys are giving me fits.....

It will be worth it at the range tomorrow.....(I hope) heh

 

[poco loco]

The brass prep involved in bottlenecked cartridges is almost universally every reloaders least favorite part of reloading.

I just started with .223 and man what a pita finally found the drill attachment for the trimmer and that helped but I'm just not used to these tiny cases......I like 06 or 308 but these little guys are giving me fits.....

It will be worth it at the range tomorrow.....(I hope) heh

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

When depriming military brass the first time, use a dedicated decapping-only die. Lee and RCBS make them.

After depriming them, you need to remove the crimp. Dillon makes an excellent decrimper for $100 that you can use in front of the TV.

I just did 1k .308 brass w/ my RCBS w/o a problem. I also bought two Lee depriming dies as backups as I have lots more brass to do and the pins will eventually break.

 

[FROGO207]

If you are having trouble removing the primers a RCBS universal depriming die and some spare decap pins will be a big help. When depriming mil spec brass you will probably break some decap pins as you do it. The RCBS is not slip fit and will not slide up. The downside is it will take another step in your process for the first time you prepare the brass, I would also ream the primer pocket with the chamfer tool at the same time before I put the brass down when removing it from the press. Just add the die to the turrent and run the brass up and deprime before running it up in the sizing die. Not to worry we all went through the same process you are going through when we started and went on to help the next guy/gal. Having a mentor that has done it already and can hands on show you would be a big help if one is around your area. I can watch and ask easier than figure it out alone every time. Ask more questions if needed. We all want to help I am sure.

 

[sniper5]

Worst comes to worst, you could always toss a couple of bucks into the lee manual depriming tool, the one that has the steel base and the pin punch that you strike with a mallet. Pretty darn near unbreakable and not really any slower than the press mounted decapper. Not to mention pretty good for working off frustration after a bad day at work.

Now after you go to all this trouble, don't forget to swage, ream, or uniform that crimp off the primer pocket or you will be in for yet another round of grief when you go to TRY to reprime.

 

[flashhole]

I agree with sniper5. I use the Lee manual decappers for mil brass with crimped primers. I give it three whacks with a 6 ounce hammer. If they don't come out they go in the scrap bucket. Some of them can be real buggers to remove. My advice is get some different brass and go for it again. Don't get discouraged, it is fun when things are going according to plan.

+1 on the Imperial Die Sizing Wax. Nothing beats it and one small tin lasts for thousands of cases.

Here's what I have for both 30 cal and 22 cal. They are inexpensive and work really well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEE-30-Cal-DECA...414?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad1f44d86